First Winter - Poly Hive - Feeding - Moisture

[XYZ]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to get used to not doing as much with the bees now the weather is colder. I want a 100% success rate through winter with my three colonies so my aim is to understand the key features to making sure these girls overwinter well.

The configurations for the three hives differ a fair bit:
Colony 1 - Abelo poly national. 11 frames. Poly open mesh floor with tray in (pulled about an inch back from fully in), poly brood box, poly crown board with all vents and inserts in, and poly roof.
Since 31/08/19 they have had 18 litres of thymol sugar syrup and it is really heavy to heft so I think they've rammed their spare frames with stores.
This colony is 6 seams of bees, with the rest of the frames being stores.

Colony 2 - Maisemore Poly Nuc. 6 frames. Miller feeder on, then roof (thicker poly - new style). This colony has had 10 litres since 31/08/19
It's a healthy colony, rammed with bees - wall to wall.

Colony 3 - Abelo poly national. 11 frames. Poly open mesh floor with tray an inch out, poly brood box, poly ashforth feeder, wood crown board with holes covered, and poly roof.
This is a big colony, with bees on 9 frames. They've had 20 litres of thymol sugar syrup since 31/08/19 and heft very heavy. They haven't finished the syrup they've had so I'm reluctant to add any more.

So my questions:
1. Can I leave the configurations as they are?
With this point I'm mostly referring to the hives with feeders on top. are they going to be a bother?
2. Is it beneficial/detrimental to the bees to give them liquid feed in poly hives through winter?
3. What would boost my chances of successful overwintering?

I appreciate your answers and advice.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nuc. I would take feeder off and give them some fondant if they get light
Third hive You can leave the poly feeder on as an extra layer of insulation
Monitoring trays out completely
I presume you have varroa under control
No syrup, fondant in early spring if they need it

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would leave the feeder on the nuc for extra insulation, if you do need to feed fomdant later, take out the partitions and the perspex and put the fondant over the entry slot

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

If the poly feeders are like mine they have a big bee-slot in the middle and I take them off sharpish at this time of year. I insulate with Celotex offcuts.

Overall you're in good shape. Good luck. I'd pull that floor with the gap all the way out: condensation can make a mess.

 

[SDM]

If the poly feeders are like mine they have a big bee-slot in the middle and I take them off sharpish at this time of year. I insulate with Celotex offcuts.
.

Same here, whilst I know that in poly I'm probably worrying about nothing, I don't want them having to move that far to get to the fondant, nor do I want a feeder full of comb.

 

[SDM]

Seems like you've got it under control . Feeders off inspection boards out. The only other major factor of winter survival to consider in future years is young queens. Personally, I requeen every year for the improved harvest and survival.
Don't take it personally if they don't all make it. 100% survival isn't sustainable.

 

[Curly green finger's]

If the poly feeders are like mine they have a big bee-slot in the middle and I take them off sharpish at this time of year. I insulate with Celotex offcuts.

Overall you're in good shape. Good luck. I'd pull that floor with the gap all the way out: condensation can make a mess.

How does that work with the insulation?
The space between feeder and the top of frames is minimal how do you insulate that void?
The op is in duram also so he's up north.
Surely the advice would be better taken from some one more local .

I've Maisemore nucs with the feeder slot in the middle and I leave mine in place , cut poly to sit in where the syrup goes as they are on rails a metre of the ground madasafish suggested closing of the mesh floor which I plan to do .
As to my wooden hives I leave inspection boards in completely theres still a viod for air flow .
I've five Maisemore nucs on high ground this is how I will be overwintering them...
The geographical location where they are kept should be how you decide how to over winter.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sometimes I put my inspection boards in but my floors are deepened so that they sit a good two inches below the mesh. They are simple correx so there is a gap at the back. The boxes with Nadired shallows don't really need boards in

 

[Beefriendly]

Got to take issue with inspection boards out...balmy sarth and Wales maybe fine but it gets damn cold up here and leaving them in (and giving regular cleans during the winter) has been my policy for years.
Yes they will survive with the boards out and nothing but an open mesh floor....but they will also survive with matchsticks under the crown board and a through draft all winter.....Neither of which are on my list of winter prep recommendations
My concession is to not put them fully in so there is a 1/2inch gap between the entrance and the board so any rain entering the hive through the entrance (as it does) runs through this gap and doesn't accumulate on the boards/trays.
But each to their own.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Got to take issue with inspection boards out...balmy sarth and Wales maybe fine but it gets damn cold up here and leaving them in (and giving regular cleans during the winter) has been my policy for years.
Yes they will survive with the boards out and nothing but an open mesh floor....but they will also survive with matchsticks under the crown board and a through draft all winter.....Neither of which are on my list of winter prep recommendations
My concession is to not put them fully in so there is a 1/2inch gap between the entrance and the board so any rain entering the hive through the entrance (as it does) runs through this gap and doesn't accumulate on the boards/trays.
But each to their own.

As is the way each to there own , last winter I lost a 6 frame wooden nuc it should of been in a poly .
It also was a swarm late in the season the queen didn't mate very well and they superseded and didn't really get going after that I didn't have other stock so there was no chance of me uniting ... I've learned by that mistake and now make sure I've a Nuc for each strong colony I have .

 

[Beefriendly]

last winter I lost a 6 frame wooden nuc .

Losses in wooden nucs (solid floors) round here were horrendous. When I used them it was something in the order of 70% loss and the survivors where not in good shape. Poly nucs (with open mesh floors closed off) were a major game changer for overwintering small colonies in my area.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Losses in wooden nucs (solid floors) round here were horrendous. When I used them it was something in the order of 70% loss and the survivors where not in good shape. Poly nucs (with open mesh floors closed off) were a major game changer for overwintering small colonies in my area.

Well that's good to no that I'm doing the right thing when it comes to using poly nucs. Imo poly nucs are the best thing since sliced bread all of mine are really strong I've even used brood frames this summer from Polying nucs to top up other colony's and never seen frames drawn so quick . Next on my list is buying poly hives and eventually going all poly mainly because of the reasons above .

I think anyone now starting out should go poly ... sorry grandad who was a traditionalist using wood, would hopefully agree .
The colony I lost was my first since I started beekeeping
And I was quite gutted but have learned from it.

 

[Swarm]

My poly nucs have homemade floors, under hive entrance with a reduced area of open mesh. I close them off in Winter but my inspection boards also seal the back of the floor. Unless the back is sealed off, rain can drive in and soak them. I also used to find them blown out by the wind but my boards are just correx. I've got loads of the stuff so I stuck some together for a thicker board but the wind still blew them out. I suppose I could make them wider so they jam in place but the back end still needed sealing off so that part dealt with both problems.

 

[XYZ]

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate it

Is there a specific time when to stop feeding syrup and move on to fondant? I suppose the regional differences mentioned earlier would be a factor - likely beekeepers in my area would be moving to fondant earlier than those down South due to weather/conditions, would you say?

I'm 100% poly and will probably continue as my operation expands, unless of course there's strong evidence it's worse for the bees.

Mixed opinions on the inspection tray thing. I'll try this winter with them in but pulled back (as they are now), but noted the good idea of regularly cleaning them. I've read a lot on the forums about over-ventilating not being good for them.

One thing I have noticed, is condensation inside these poly hives. I've seen it under the crown board, at the top of the brood box and in the frame runners. Is that an issue?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Fondant at 10 degrees is a rough guide
Condensation on top of bees should be avoided. Make sure there is more insulation on the top than the sides and take the inspection boards out. Then you won’t get any
Or do what I do if I put my boards in, make sure there is a good gap between them and the mesh and a gap at the back.

 

[madasafish]

Fondant at 10 degrees is a rough guide
Condensation on top of bees should be avoided. Make sure there is more insulation on the top than the sides and take the inspection boards out. Then you won’t get any
Or do what I do if I put my boards in, make sure there is a good gap between them and the mesh and a gap at the back.

The only entrance to air on my hives in winter is the entrance. Period...Far too windy to have a draughty corridor..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is there a specific time when to stop feeding syrup and move on to fondant?

Not really, depends on weather and temperature but your question seems to highlight the misconception by some that feeding needs to be continuous throughout the winter, which is not the case
Pile on the syrup (and I mean pile on, not trickle feed with piddling little 4 litre feeders) September/October time, the bees will take it down and store it - they will fill every nook and cranny if needs be.
There will then be every possibility that this autumn feeding will last the colony right through until the spring when the willows bloom again.
In reality, once you have stopped syrup feeding (usually coincides with the ivy going over) you shouldn't even need to check until Christmas has been and gone, and then if you think they are getting light on stores, slap the fondant on.

 

[drex]

As per JBM, mine only get fondant when and if they need it. Feeding is a balancing act, come spring I want enough stores to keep them going but enough empty space so queen has room to lay.
The best time for spring/winter feeding is in the autumn before they are shut up for winter.

 

[Beefriendly]

In reality, once you have stopped syrup feeding (usually coincides with the ivy going over) .

In my area it usually coincides with the first ivy flowering!!!!....... and that is in sheltered sunny hollows.

 

[Poly Hive]

I would remind you all that OMF floors were "invented" to improve wintering long before varroa arrived here. More the research was done in Aberdeenshire which with its latitude (north of Moscow) and it's bitter east winds is arguably one of the harshest climates in the UK. *just saying*

Setting that aside to avoid the boring arguments.

I take feeders off after syrup is fed. I will be removing mine next week.

I have for many years now upturned the big hive feeders and fed fondant below them with no losses. As in using the feeder as a cover for the fondant with a roof on top to cover the holes.

For nucs I have ekes and again feed fondant directly on the topbars. I find this very successful and have taken through ridiculously weak nucs like this.

The main point is that fondant should be accessible to all the bees so the block needs to be BIG ENOUGH to cover all the frames. Not 100% of the top bars but so that the cluster can access it from where ever in the box they chose to sit.

This cures isolation starvation which can occur in any hive type though far less likely in poly.

PH