First try at raising Queens by cell punching.

[madasafish]

I attended a BIBA talk by Roger Patterson early this year where he talked beekeeping in general and cell punching in particular. As my eyesight is poor - I wear varifocals- and my hand shakes (not DT but age!) - the chances of my grafting successfully is poor..

I have raised queens in the past by mainly the Miller method but cutting the cells out afterwards has been a PIA and the results have been variable. So I reckonned cell punching allowed choice of eggs - like grafting - with none of the hassle. It was also cheap - I could make my own punch from surplus materials and did so using 15mm copper pipe soldered to a nail, sharpened and serrated at the punch end.


So at 2.30pm today - a nice warm (17C) sunny day with little wind, I made a Lang jumbo Q- by removing queen on a comb and placing her in a nuc ( dummied down from 5 to two frames) together with another frame of bees. Took two passes to find the queen - I used no smoke as she runs around and hides .

Then took one comb with 3 day larvae - looked near enough 2-3 day using a led lit magnifying glass with frame in a frame stand..I can see eggs with my eyesight but a magnifying glass makes identification much easier. Into garage, heated cell punch in hot water, punched and attached resulting cell to cup with artist's paint brush and hot wax.(Wax heated in silver plated (!) serving spoon using a blowlamp - with care - see photos.) Completed seven punches, screwed wood to which cells were attached into a super frame by 3.30pm...and into queenless hive in the gap left by the removed frames. (The gap was FULL of bees.

All done in just over one hour..interesting to see how many take..See tomorrow's instalment.

 

[JWF]

Be interested in finding out how you get on. Thanks for the description and the pics.

 

[Motobiman]

Thanks for this.

Looking forward to the next instalment with the way the frame is handled.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well done. How old do you think the larvae were as under 24 hours is the material to be choosing if you can.

PH

 

[madasafish]

How old?
About 2 days - I think..not started to curl yet.

Edit: I chose a frame with very young larvae and worked outwards until I got to eggs. These were the outermost on the frame so the youngest. The wax was newly drawn this year so white and finding eggs took patience. But white wax is easier to punch than old dark wax - as I discovered on a dummy run..

So today I removed the frame - some 6 of the 7 cells appear to have been accepted. I protected them by covering both sides of the frame with plastic QE cut to size and held on with drawing pins. Replaced in hive and added back Queen on her frame from nuc where she had been parked..


By my calculations, QCs should be sealed 3rd June(?) and emerge 10th June - give or take a day or two.

So far been quite easy...

 

[Motobiman]

May I ask a question?

Is the QE there to keep the old Q out or the newly emerged Qs in?

 

[madasafish]

May I ask a question?

Is the QE there to keep the old Q out or the newly emerged Qs in?

Now the hive is queenright, the existing Queen will breakdown any queencells and kill any larvae in them. So the QE is keeping the old Queen out. If I left them all to emerge, the first out would kill the others...So I need to remove the QCs before any queens emerge.. or protect the cells in a cage after they have been capped.

 

[Poly Hive]

If you can put them in a super the house bees will finish them for you.

PH

 

[madasafish]

If you can put them in a super the house bees will finish them for you.

PH

That would save a lot of brace comb.
Thanks.
Anything special to do?

 

[Motobiman]

#7
That makes sense thanks.

 

[Motobiman]

If you can put them in a super the house bees will finish them for you.

PH

With a QE between them?

 

[Poly Hive]

My preferred set up is BB or BB's QX super, then super with cells. Or even better the super with cells has two below it. A good strong colony with no swarm intentions is best.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Better than a Jenter...
any one tried the Thornes drone wrangling device.. a qe cage that fixes around a std nat brood comb
Put q in this with only sealed brood and laying room... let q lay ( day zero) remove q to hive... leave frame in cage in hive.
start a strong q- colony ( put q in nuc with a couple of rfame food & brood)
on day 3-4 remove and punch small larvae and put punched cell in on frame ( no qx necessary)
Once started .. now day 5 ??
put qx below now started cells
replace q from holding nuc and leave till day 14
fit roller cages or remove to incubator.
day 16 expect a htch ( Creep ) to start.

works for the Native moneybees and even my NZ Italians... if the Moon is in the first quarter!

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

My preferred set up is BB or BB's QX super, then super with cells. Or even better the super with cells has two below it. A good strong colony with no swarm intentions is best.

PH

Trust old Polly* ... he has been at it for years... Successfully!

Yeghes da

 

[madasafish]

Had second try , punching 9 cells from a TBH - lovely calm bees. Added a BeePro pollen substitute /syrup pollen patty (self made) - 220g to see what impact it will have. Placed in a separate Lang made Q- by moving Q on a frame to a nuc.

Punching from TBH problems - very new comb so VERY soft. Some cells may have been damaged. Lying a new TBH comb on its side to punch and then picking it up (support in middle of comb needed) requires care or the comb will break. Managed to avoid that - close thing.

Sunny, little wind 17C. Bees in good mood. No stings.

 

[For want of a better word]

Punching seem to work better on older comb... not seen any commercial ones.. does anyone still make them?

Yeghes da

 

[Obee1]

Hi masala. I love your cell puncher. I was watching yoo toob with fatbeeman who just hacked a 1" strip of larvae squished his fat finger through at intervals along the strip and stuck the strip onto a frame. Looks dead easy.

http://youtu.be/y64cKn4rLNM

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't think they do and I seem to remember used rifle cartridges being used at some point.

I would have thought 12mm copper tube filed sharp would work quite well. The trick though is to get as young as you can.

PH

 

[madasafish]

I don't think they do and I seem to remember used rifle cartridges being used at some point.

I would have thought 12mm copper tube filed sharp would work quite well. The trick though is to get as young as you can.

PH

I am using 15mm copper pipe. It does leave occasionally two cells so one must be torn down or you will end up with double QCs impossible to separate (or so I am told)