First Time Queen Rearer.. Advice Please.

[BrianO]

Hi

This year want to try the "Dark Art" of Queen rearing.

Currently 9 colonies and would like by year end to be going into winter with 30 colonies, and achieve a good honey crop this year ( Wouldnt we all I hear the Cry !! )

Was considering Grafting and Queen cups etc, but then read of simpler methods, such as Ben Harden method, or another involving just taking newly laid up frame from chosen hive , removing majority eggs, leaving saced eggs about 20 then laying this flat on top brood framea slighly raised up in a recently Q- finishing hive.

What method would you experienced Queen raisers reccomend for the production of about 25 Queens, without seriously compromising colonies involved re honey yield ?

Thanks Guys !

 

[JEP]

If it is essential you do your queen rearing without compromising honey yield then the best method would be using a good colony as a queenright starter / finisher. One of the best descriptions of this method is a National Bee Unit publication - that is the method they use for all their queen rearing.

If you are less concerned about honey production from the colony involved but want more convenience regarding graft acceptance etc. then a massive queenless colony is the way to go. This is the method I would prefer in many circumstances particularly later on in the season.

A middle of the road path would be using a crowded but smaller queenless starter and then putting the grafts above a queenright finisher.

All can give good results but as with most things the devil is in the detail.

 

[Poly Hive]

I would go with Jep here with the addition that the weather will decide matters for you.

Start in a crowded five frame nuc. Amalgamate the started cells, and you will know the next day which they are by reason of the RJ in them, the rejects will be dry. Put your bar of accepted in the top super of a strong colony for finishing and fgs do not lose track of what is where as one early virgin and the lot is gone. Repeat. Aim for 20 mated queens, and for that you probably need at least 30 accepted cells. You also have to allow for mis matings and DLQ's. This is where the cost of the mini nucs comes in, and not the £ they cost but the amount of bees needed to stock them.

For mating use mini nucs and you should get two queens per mini per year at least.

Then make up one or two frame nucs with the mated queen intro'd via cage. And NEXT year you take off.

Miracles do take that bit longer.....

PH

 

[bpmurray]

I had my first attempt last year - a mix of captured swarm cells and grafts. From that little experience, I have to concur with Jep - the single best trick is to use a really, really strong hive as the finisher.

Note that the Ben Harden method is similar to the method mentioned in that Beebase article, although it's specifically designed for the Irish Black Bees. My plan is to use Ben Harden on a double brood this year - I plan on then splitting my double-broods with a laying queen available to take over soon after the split, without having to wait for them to rear their own (and I'll know where she's from!).

 

[jimmybee]

Just wondering how many mini nucs would you need? for this 30?, and also wont you need to start the frames off on a strong hive to build comb on your mini frames?, it will be late in the season before you start rearing.

 

[Poly Hive]

Mini nucs are stocked with a mug of bees and draw their own comb.

It should be possible to have them up and running by late May early June and to take off two queens each allowing for disasters. So 15 should be fine.

PH

 

[masterBK]

I find cupkit, cloake board and mininukes quite a successfull way forward (hands not steady enough these days for grafting) and generate about 40 to 50 queens a year using 3 breeder queens in succession (ie each mininuke used 3 times). Aim for double the queens you need as 50% overall success rate most likely outcome.

 

[mbc]

. Aim for double the queens you need as 50% overall success rate most likely outcome.

Thats about right, they dont accept all the cells, some cells need culling, some virgins dont hatch, some virgins dont get mated, some mated queens need culling, leaves about 50% useful.

 

[B+.]

they dont accept all the cells, some cells need culling, some virgins dont hatch,

Have you tried putting a virgin in when you make up the nuc (similar to this https://youtu.be/kyzAS5eZ2xA?t=48m54s) so you know the cell emerged? It might help improve the success rate

 

[Poly Hive]

First time of stocking should really be a virgin but that supposes you have the cages/incubator to manage them.

PH

 

[mbc]

Have you tried putting a virgin in when you make up the nuc (similar to this https://youtu.be/kyzAS5eZ2xA?t=48m54s) so you know the cell emerged? It might help improve the success rate

Yup, tried most things, 50% at the end of the day isn't so bad for round here, it's best to make as much of that 50% early on as possible, ie. cull viciously, accepting only perfect looking cells.
I do a few hundred queens a season and have mostly settled for what works best for me, though I'm always looking for improvements.

 

[jimmybee]

Once I've grafted and after I've incubated them does any one know of a mating station in the outer hebrides I can sent the girls too?. Good video shame we don't have the isolation for drones over here.

 

[B+.]

does any one know of a mating station in the outer hebrides I can sent the girls too?. Good video shame we don't have the isolation for drones over here.

We seem to be comparative newcomers to the idea so I am not aware of any island mating stations around the British Isles. The Germans operate several in the Wadden Sea and there is one off the coast of Croatia. The Dutch also have one on Vlieland but these are all that I know of.
In this country, the best we can do is adopt instrumental insemination (https://youtu.be/b_vcpRnYhHg)

 

[Finman]

Hi

This year want to try the "Dark Art" of Queen rearing.

Currently 9 colonies and would like by year end to be going into winter with 30 colonies, and achieve a good honey crop this year ( Wouldnt we all I hear the Cry !! )

Was considering Grafting and Queen cups etc, but then read of simpler methods, such as Ben Harden method, or another involving just taking newly laid up frame from chosen hive , removing majority eggs, leaving saced eggs about 20 then laying this flat on top brood framea slighly raised up in a recently Q- finishing hive.

But what ever, it all is very interesting to learn and solve problems..
.
What method would you experienced Queen raisers reccomend for the production of about 25 Queens, without seriously compromising colonies involved re honey yield ?

Thanks Guys !

It may be simple to rear 25 queens. But then you must make 25 mating nucs, and finally to make so big nucs that they grow to wintering condition.

And 25 mated queens.... As a beginner. You must rear 50 virgins that you have afford to mistakes.

 

[Goran]

First time of stocking should really be a virgin but that supposes you have the cages/incubator to manage them.

PH

Not necessary, some of us start with qcell. But bigger mnuc ( 2,5 lang deep) and with brood already, which doesn't need refreshing with adding bees.

 

[Finman]

.
High pressures in that job.

From the first start to professional breeder in two months.

But to double hive number in one summer is very normal goal.