First Hive

[Rob55]

Hi guys, first post so go easy in me! I'm on an introduction to beekeeping course at the moment and want to buy my hardware soon to allow time to get it assembled and ready for my first bees in the Spring.

I have read that the 14x8.5 frames in a National/WBC can become filled and constrict a colony once it becomes established, leading to the need for double or brood and a half, which sounds like a lot of hassle to me. I would like to pick the right size from the outset so I can benefit further down the line. The two obvious choices to me are Commercial 16x10" (common in my local area) or the larger 14x12" brood box inside a National or WBC.

Can anyone comment on whether I am correct in budgeting for a larger hive to begin with, or could I run into trouble getting a new colony established in such a big hive? Also, is it a lot of hassle getting a standard national nuclei transferred into a 14x12" brood box?

Thanks

Rob

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi Rob 55. Welcome to the Forum.

I'm a new beek too, been mooching round the Forum for about 6 months, waiting for a nuc in April.

Having looked and listened, I decided to go for a couple of 14x12 as quite a lot of people have either shifted over or are thinking of doing.

As for transferring a standard nuc to a 14x12, I asked the same question.
See the following thread.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14580

Enjoy.

Dusty

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

And before I forget, I started a thread to ask what people thought would be the bare necessities for a new Beek:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14039

I think it should start, "First, rob a bank....."


Dusty

 

[biglongdarren]

hey ye rob,good to see you on here,where abouts in the counrty are you from?? this will be my third summer keeping bees now and i started with and cant see much wrong with the national hive, althought i know next to nothing about beekeeping i think that for the short summer we have and everything else nationals are fine.
Darren

 

[Easy Beesy]

Hi rob55
You could ask your course tutors about the locally used ( and therefore easy to get) hive parts. Find out from whoever you are getting your Nuc from, what they can/are willing to supply in. Might factor in your eventual choice of brood box?

 

[For want of a better word]

Two broods are better than one !

IMVHO !

 

[susbees]

Welcome to the forum. I use Commercials and if anyone wants a National nuc it can be done without fuss but I think it's best to keep to what's local if it works especially if you only have a hive or two.

It's more a case of what sort of bee you are putting in your box. We have some prolific colonies which need double brood (Commercial and a super) and some near-natives which brood happily in just the Commercial (like the Irish Galtee bee but Welsh )- and many here with the black-type bees have them just in a standard National. To start with when you transfer your nuc you will need "dummy board(s)" so as to give them just a couple of frames to draw at a time. Then give them more. These can just be cut from ply and fitted with a narrow length of timber at the top...but I have also used chunks of Kingspan cut to fit on occasion.

 

[susbees]

Two broods are better than one !

IMVHO !

Very helpful...

 

[Black Comb]

I started on nats and did not like the double brood so switched to Ls jumbo. I would start on the bigger b box.

Remember if the colony is small you can run fewer frames in the large b. boxes.

 

[Rob55]

So the general consensus then is that a bigger brood box should be an advantage, and while the colony is building up I can just keep more dummy frames and gradually add foundation frames as and when they are required? I guess if that is so, the best thing is to make a few enquiries within my club to see how my bees are likely to arrive, and that should help pick between a commercial or 14x12.

I must admit, I do quite fancy a WBC with 14x12 brood box, found a well known company online selling the complete kit with 4 lifts to allow the extra depth in the brood box. I just think the commercial is a bit ugly But then again, going on what I am told I would need to keep a good few extra pieces of kit, so a cheaper commercial may be the way to go and might be handy if a few people nearby were using the same equipment. Decisions decisions!

hey ye rob,good to see you on here,where abouts in the counrty are you from?? this will be my third summer keeping bees now and i started with and cant see much wrong with the national hive, althought i know next to nothing about beekeeping i think that for the short summer we have and everything else nationals are fine.
Darren

Hi Darren, located in the maiden city, joined the Roe Valley BKA. What about yourself?

I think it should start, "First, rob a bank....."

Dusty

Thanks for the links Dusty, very good reading for a beginner, I think that covers off just about everything related to the equipment side of things!!

 

[susbees]

So the general consensus then is that a bigger brood box should be an advantage, and while the colony is building up I can just keep more dummy frames and gradually add foundation frames as and when they are required?

Yep, that's about the nub of it.

I must admit, I do quite fancy a WBC with 14x12 brood box, found a well known company online selling the complete kit with 4 lifts to allow the extra depth in the brood box. I just think the commercial is a bit ugly

Brainwashed by AA Milne. Sigh....How can a square cedar box be ugly: plain and practical? Have you looked at the poly fish boxes some keep their bees in, or the unbelievable Beehaus ?!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Rob - Some general advise you may find handy here
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14770

 

[BeeJayBee]

So the general consensus then is that a bigger brood box should be an advantage, and while the colony is building up I can just keep more dummy frames and gradually add foundation frames as and when they are required?

The amount of space a colony needs can depend on local geography/weather conditions and the type of bees you have.

We're using Jumbo Langstroth brood boxes, which in this area tend to be used with one with one dummy/follower board, so 9 brood frames.

Some people are starting to use the same size boxes (usually supers) throughout their hives, because it means all the boxes and frames are interchangeable. It means having two boxes for brood instead of one.

This page lists the various sizes http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=856

We're getting polystyrene hives, because the good insulation offers a more stable internal temperature than wood, which in turn means there's less work for the bees as they shouldn't need to either cool or heat the air quite as much to maintain the right temperature.

DerekM has made his own hives, cut from using Kingspan insulation http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=289

If you can, and before you spend any money, I'd suggest you look at and handle as many different different hive types as possible before choosing the one that suits you best. You might even decide to make your own. The bees won't mind, as long as they're safe and out of the weather.

 

[Teemore]

G'day Rob - if you are going to the James Tew lecture this evening you'll enjoy it. He delivered a lecture to the INIB on Saturday and it was top notch.

Most beekeepers near you will be using standard Nationals although some do use Commercials and a smaller number will be using Jumbo Nationals (14x12). In terms of getting a nuc or a full colony of bees I suspect that it is highly likely that they will be provided on standard national frames. This should inform your decision as to what to purchase. Also think about what the other members of Roe Valley are using. If you ever found yourself Queenless, a donated, disease free frame of eggs and brood from a neighbouring beekeeper could be a lifesaver for a colony. If your hives are a different format to your neighbours, you can't really benefit from a donated frame of brood. (Well you can but it involves a lot of fiddling about...)

Definitely do not discount poly hives.

 

[tonybloke]

well, you can fit a national brood frame in a commercial hive, the top bar is the same length.

 

[victor meldrew]

well, you can fit a national brood frame in a commercial hive, the top bar is the same length.

The depth is deeper 16"x10"
VM

 

[tonybloke]

The depth is deeper 16"x10"
VM

yep, but it will fit in, if needs be

 

[Rob55]

G'day Rob - if you are going to the James Tew lecture this evening you'll enjoy it. He delivered a lecture to the INIB on Saturday and it was top notch.

Yes I was at the lecture, he delivered a very enjoyable evening. I got my membership paid up and got a brief chat with some of the guys in the club, who confirmed what you had said that the nuc will most likely come with national frames. Registered my interest with Leo and let him know I would like to take one off the club apiary whenever they are ready

I am wavering towards the 14x12" option with a few extra dummy boards, will be a bit more tricky to get the nucleus frames integrated but less so than if I go for a commercial. I just hate the idea of a double brood and inspecting 22 frames.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

It's a frustrating time, isn't it, Rob?

It's a big decision, which will set your course for years and isn't easily changeable - taken at the time you are least equipped to decide!

I got my two hives in the autumn and I've had endless fun oiling them and making up frames - 8 months before I can get my bees. I didn't know what to choose - but stuck to my mantra that whatever decision is taken, it is always partly wrong.

I eventually settled on 14x12s in cedar as, (1) I love the smell, sigh and texture of wood, and (2) nationals are by far the most common round here, but (3) it seems daft to ignore the common view that a standard BB is too small.

Now I've decided that, I need to put my doubts to one side, and do so by declaring all other styles and all other materials, as being total b*llocks. Especially poly hives (partly because they're cheaper and I can't stand the thought that I've spent the Greek national debt on bespoke cedars). Wouldn't have them in the garden. And poly owners seem totally prejudiced - as opposed to my own clear-minded decisiveness, born out of ignorance.

However, I do have to pay attention to that bit of me that hates to be a conformist - so when I get to a third full hive, it will be a Warre. That way, I can be superior to everybody!

And all that without owning a single bee.

Great fun.

Go to it, pal!

Dusty.

 

[Teemore]

If the colonies in the association apiary are being effectively managed on standard Nationals it is worth keeping this in mind when you do think about making a purchase. I would also recommend that you consider purchasing some spare equipment at the outset as you will find it useful to have. it is highly likely that it won't stay "spare" for long....