Feeding

[enrico]

Sure Paul, too easy...
A typo, should read "last"... and in context says it is important only
to feed small amounts or risk the bees bringing the queen to lay up
a storm, the last thing needed to happen in a dearth.
Clear?

Bill

You see, when you keep it simple and to the point with no errors you can be quite interesting. That was sound advice
Just leave out the flannel please.
E

 

[Rosti]

To answer the original question, I favour 1:1 syrup and little and often to deal with starving but not encourage anything else.

I use the round rapid feeders in the summer (my twin vessel Ashforths have too high a capacity for summer use). One additional point. If it is a small colony and it needs feeding, I also add insulation above and around the feeder (40mm MD panels cut to size). No point giving them feed that they then have to disproportionately convert into lost heat.

Currently feeding x2 recently housed swarms, both have laying queens and are at the expanding in to full 14x12 at the mo. One has been given the insulation treatment.

 

[Repwoc]

Sure Paul, too easy...
A typo, should read "last"... and in context says it is important only
to feed small amounts or risk the bees bringing the queen to lay up
a storm, the last thing needed to happen in a dearth.
Clear?

Bill

Ah! so:

... A small amount, as the last thing needed is to incite any brood
raising over a period of dearth.

Got it.

 

[Beefriendly]

Perhaps one needs to add why add pollen/pollen substitute at any point during a dearth....

 

[eltalia]

Perhaps one needs to add why add pollen/pollen substitute at any point during a dearth....

IF sugar alone is fed bees are only getting carbs... why that is 'bad' for them
I'll leave those that seek to know to go study biology of living organisms, it is
basic stuff every educated human should be aware of.
As to others comments on my 'style'?
Happy as I am to review typo/software errors, or even a polite request to
expand on topic I will n0t be bullied into "dot point" handfeeding as it appears
some would prefer their information feed. My exposure over decades to many
facets of Apiculture is earnt, I am n0t persuaded to endure those same yards
in accomadating every variation in Internet traveller.
It is what it is, use it or move on.... no problem here.

Your suggestion addressed, I thank you.
/waves/

Bill

 

[pargyle]

Bill,
If you are not going to argue, or give a reasonable alternative to my advice then what is the point of your answer other than to cause confusion. Your posts frustrate me. I think the time has come to totally ignore them. Life is far too short to try and make sense of your beekeeping habits any longer. I am not sure what country you live in but clearly your beekeeping ethics are about as far removed from British beekeeping as they could possibly be. Whilst our methods may not work for you they are tried and tested in our Country and climate and whilst we are always willing to move forward, to leap into your world would be, for me at any rate, a frightening leap of faith. I would like to say it's been a pleasure knowing you but.......
E

Hit the ignore button .. you will only see him when someone quotes his posts ! ... Thanks Enrico .. I know what I'm missing now ... not a lot !!

 

[Beefriendly]

IF sugar alone is fed bees are only getting carbs... why that is 'bad' for them
I'll leave those that seek to know to go study biology of living organisms, it is
basic stuff every educated human should be aware of.

Not really Bill.. The protein is no brood made during dearths...ergo no need for brood food. So not bad for them.
Basic biology.
Not needed if no brood to feed..... hence winter bees require no protein input to survive 5 /6 months without such aforesaid.
Think I'm getting the hang of antipodean SPAK

 

[ShinySideUp]

Bill,
If you are not going to argue, or give a reasonable alternative to my advice then what is the point of your answer other than to cause confusion. Your posts frustrate me. I think the time has come to totally ignore them. Life is far too short to try and make sense of your beekeeping habits any longer. I am not sure what country you live in but clearly your beekeeping ethics are about as far removed from British beekeeping as they could possibly be. Whilst our methods may not work for you they are tried and tested in our Country and climate and whilst we are always willing to move forward, to leap into your world would be, for me at any rate, a frightening leap of faith. I would like to say it's been a pleasure knowing you but.......
E

I like the ignore facility, wish I could do it in the real world.

 

[Eyeman]

Not really Bill.. The protein is no brood made during dearths...ergo no need for brood food. So not bad for them.
Basic biology.
Not needed if no brood to feed..... hence winter bees require no protein input to survive 5 /6 months without such aforesaid.
Think I'm getting the hang of antipodean SPAK

I've got colonies chucking out drone larvae and queens have been shut down. A prolonged brood break at this time of the year will affect the numbers 'when or if' the main summer flow starts. in approx 4 weeks time.
I can definitely see a role for pollen during this dearth in both nucs which are struggling to build up and production colonies.

 

[Eyeman]

The downside being that if bees are really starving then they need to liquefy fondant and dilute it down to 50% or less before they can metabolise it. Not a major problem with all this stuff falling from the sky.
But a thought worth bearing in mind if they are in desperate need of energy it's imposing an additional bit of work on them.
Using, say, 30-50% syrup is instantly usable.

If you always have some fondant (as insurance) on the nucs when they are building up then they never get to point of starvation. I no longer mess around with small bits of fondant but use good chunks ontop of the crown board which I replace before they run dry. Lost too many nucs in the past (and still making the mistake) from starvation when I took my 'eye off the ball' .

 

[Eyeman]

To return to the original question..
I use fondant all year round.. It makes no difference as far as the bees are concerned but fondant is far easier to put in/on a hive and easier to transport. In addition all my hives have 2" thick insulated crown boards which stay on all year and have a dedicated slot in the middle for taking a 2"x2"x8" block of fondant. All my Nucs (Abelo Poly Langs) have poly carb crown boards so can take the fondant in the "roof space".

Do bees draw foundation faster when given syrup? I use swarms as new comb drawing factories mainly for foundationless frames which I try and get drawn out ASAP so that they can be used in nucs etc. You can get a few rounds of frame drawing before you see any significant drone brood. I have always used syrup feeding rather than fondant feeding for this.

 

[Ian123]

It makes no odds to me if some find feeding fondant easier it’s up to them. However if you want to get weight into a hive syrup is faster full stop, fed correctly ie little and often it will also encourage development better than fondant. There’s probably no difference in any waste and sugar is a good few £ cheaper. If you find mixing syrup for a few hives a chore then really your probably doing it wrong!! I think it would take me about as long to unwrap a box of fondant and chop it up as mix the same amount of sugar into syrup. Yes bees will also draw foundation faster on syrup.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have never done a trial per se but my gut instinct is that syrup works better for instant feeding than fondant and I would strongly think that it would be better for comb drawing.

I have yet to hear that the big boys prefer it for summer feeding.

I am heading out after breakfast in the blink of dry weather this morning to feed syrup to my nucs. Before you ask it's one to one.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

I have never done a trial per se but my gut instinct is that syrup works better for instant feeding than fondant and I would strongly think that it would be better for comb drawing.

Of course it does, if syrup is used with a 50% or less sugar content the bees can metabolise it instantly. Anything higher than that requires water collection to dilute it down to a usable concentration, which adds to the work load and time taken from the beekeeper feeding to the bees digesting.
If you want to speed things up even further add dilute syrup directly into empty cells in a comb and stick that in the hive. Then they don't even have to search for the feeder.

 

[eltalia]

Between all the hypothesising come presumption around throwng sugar
at bees - whether "starving" or establishing - the expected outcome should
be at the forefront, this as sugar alone is not going to save bees from perishing
nor help out when that false positive excites comb building - simply down
to what is intended for that built comb from these bees which (subjectively)
require sugar?

Bill

 

[Eyeman]

Of course it does, if syrup is used with a 50% or less sugar content the bees can metabolise it instantly. Anything higher than that requires water collection to dilute it down to a usable concentration, which adds to the work load and time taken from the beekeeper feeding to the bees digesting.
If you want to speed things up even further add dilute syrup directly into empty cells in a comb and stick that in the hive. Then they don't even have to search for the feeder.

A 1kg block of fondant will tied my 3 & 6 frame nucs over for 2-3 weeks allowing me to 'ignore' them are concentrate on other problems!

 

[Anduril]

Post #2 is irrelevant regarding fondant, the respondent has no clue as to what we use and needs to go to the library under the stairs. This is so frustrating for Enrico and everybody else including beginners.

 

[Swarm]

Post #2 is irrelevant regarding fondant, the respondent has no clue as to what we use and needs to go to the library under the stairs. This is so frustrating for Enrico and everybody else including beginners.

 

[eltalia]

Post #2 is irrelevant regarding fondant, the respondent has no clue as to what we use and needs to go to the library under the stairs. This is so frustrating for Enrico and everybody else including beginners.

Don't worry so much about what I know or you believe I do not know as
it is simply advice, use it or remain in denial, no problem.
Seen and listened to plenty of fellas with sick bees in my time and deaf
to their own bees, largely. Thing is one has to know first to know where
the problem lies... a factor missing in many a response post read online.

Sugar is a huuuge problem in this industry, globally... and with this
Internet thingy it isn't going to change in use any time soon. You can
see the outcomes pretty much every day if you take the time... operators
going out the backdoor via "firesale". In contrast our money is in the Bank,
and thanks to bees for that outcome from a great deal of their teachings.

... stay calm, engage the cogs, and observe.
That is how beekeeping works. Period.

Bill

 

[Anduril]

Don't worry so much about what I know or you believe I do not know as
it is simply advice, use it or remain in denial, no problem.
Seen and listened to plenty of fellas with sick bees in my time and deaf
to their own bees, largely. Thing is one has to know first to know where
the problem lies... a factor missing in many a response post read online.

Sugar is a huuuge problem in this industry, globally... and with this
Internet thingy it isn't going to change in use any time soon. You can
see the outcomes pretty much every day if you take the time... operators
going out the backdoor via "firesale". In contrast our money is in the Bank,
and thanks to bees for that outcome from a great deal of their teachings.

... stay calm, engage the cogs, and observe.
That is how beekeeping works. Period.

Bill

I see your response is wibble.