Feeding time.........

[Pete D]

There have been quite a few threads about feeding our bees over the last week or so which seem to point to the fact that we are not reading our bees properly.
I thought I would add a thread which although is only my opinion may help.

I maybe wrong but I dont believe that many colonies that have over wintered need feeding right now. Yes there will be hive by hive and geographical circumstances that dictate they should be fed but in general feeding would of stopped by now.

Stimulative feeding is a different matter.

The bees by my reckoning are 4 weeks ahead of last year in terms of brood nest size and although a bigger nest needs more food they also have the foraging force to collect their own. Too much stores will restrict their development and bring on swarming conditions prematurely and like too little stores may make them tetchy as they cant build up.
My bees were bringing in water several weeks back and diluting stores that were set in the combs in the brood nest area. This manifested itself in what appeared to be nectar coming in as when I looked I had runny 'nectar' dripping out of cells. By removing some stores combs or adding more space (empty combs or super) they had more space to condition this diluted stores and therefore could move it out of the brood area and allow the queen to have more laying space.

This time last year I was feeding several hives, I was doing this because on inspection they needed it and the weather was dire, so was the forecast. I was not feeding all hives just in case, just those that needed it.
The weather maybe dire in a few weeks time and they may need feeding again but right now they dont, none of them.

These is only my thoughts and comments, I am no expert, but I have learnt very quickly that beekeeping is not about following a calendar, its about individual colonies and my management of them by what they tell me through what I find in the hive when I inspect. If I can stay ahead of their needs and help them they will flourish and produce an excess of honey or bees for harvesting.

Right now I am looking to build my colonies as big as possible with thousands and thousands of bees and to do that I look in them (when necessary) and take the action that will promote the conditions for that to happen.
Those conditions my beginners course told me were;

• a good laying queen
• space for her to lay
• enough stores and pollen to feed the young
• disease free
• varroa control as applicable
• enough space for the colony to grow, not too much to stunt it.
• some decent weather and forage

I believe I can help with all of those requirements except the weather and forage, (although I can move them to forage), but only if I look in the hive and read what the bees are telling me.

Yes we all make mistakes, panic and do daft things at times and despite that the bees mostly do ok.
As Rab would say take a minute to think about whats going on and what you are trying to achieve, you rarely need to do something instantly.

Good luck one and all for the coming season, just stack the luck on your side.

 

[Erichalfbee]

An important management tool is to learn to heft your hive or weigh it. I have been weighing mine since late winter and I'm getting the hang of translating that to number of frames of stores. At first inspection I had to take frames out of the poly hives, and mine weren't fed after autumn at all.The cedar colony have it about right.

 

[Hivemaker.]

This time last year I was feeding several hives, I was doing this because on inspection they needed it and the weather was dire, so was the forecast.

Sounds similar to the weather here so far this spring, been only five days of good weather for bees so far this year, and the weather forecast not looking good... but early season yet, but hoping the temperatures will rise, the rain and fog will clear and the sun appears.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I fed my bees over winter as most did syrup in autumn then fondant .
Hefted regularly over winter. ( cheap fishing scales made this easier for a newbie)
Beginning of march i checked the hives and i found 1 near starvation and the other was fine 3 frames of stores. They still had fondant above the crown board though.
They had both been fed the same over winter and had exactly the same food.
The weaker hive had taken less of the fondant was the only difference i could see at the time.
I gave them both neopoll to help with build up mainly for OSR.
The weaker hive i also gave syrup every week while the weather was bad. They don't seem to like fondant.
One month on the difference is amazing , they are out foraging i've had to put supers on as both are rammed with bees and stores.
I removed all feed last weekend as i didn't think they needed it when the weather had improved.
From what i have read a large colony can consume upto 10lbs of stores ( 2 brood frames ) a week.
Thats some sweet tooth

What i have learned is that no 2 hives are the same and when they find a source of food wow they can really pack it in , you have to be on your toes and try to think ahead .( hard when you have no experience )
Last weekend one hive had 3 1/2 completely empty brood frames and space in the brood area so i didn't put a super on.
3 days later the hive was very noisy so i had a look.
They had filled the entire brood box with brood and food leaving only about 1 inch spare at the bottom of an outer frame in just 3 days wow.
This is my first spring/summer with bees and had no idea how fast they can expand if the circumstances are right.
After talking to a friend the opposite is also true they can die just as quick if they have nothing. Poor guy lost his colony to starvation they were alive one day and gone the next.
"I'll do it tomorrow" doesn't seem to be something bees understand.

I guess what i'm trying to say is every hive is different and it's our job to read what is going on and provide what is needed food space etc.
This is a skill that we all have to learn and the bees will just have to put up with us while we do.

The topics and discussion here have helped me more than any book some don't suffer fools gladly but your question is always answered.

Sry if i rambled or drifted off topic these meds are a little strong.

 

[Chris B]

A nice summary Pete. I would add one point:

I've found if I've given too much syrup in spring the bees just ignore it if they have nowhere to store it. They'll build brace comb above frames or even in the feeder itself if they can, but they don't clog the broodnest itself in the spring. They don't just store it like little robots just because it's there. So the real problem is that when you go to add supers you find syrup in the feeder that you need to remove - a right pain in bum, but only for me not the bees.
Overwintered stores can clog the broodnest, but even then I find this relatively rarely and only in smaller colonies.

 

[alanf]

Sounds similar to the weather here so far this spring, been only five days of good weather for bees so far this year, and the weather forecast not looking good... but early season yet, but hoping the temperatures will rise, the rain and fog will clear and the sun appears.

What does seem to be emerging this spring is a big contrast West to East, we're actually a little North of your latitude as I read the maps. As I type this the official local weather station says 19.3C, warmer than that in a sheltered corner. Sun is a little misty but cloud cover less that 25%. We had Sahara sand on the cars earlier in the week. Bees have been busy all week, not so much last week but they were the week before. Blackthorn is going over, they're working plums and buzzing around the rosemary. I've seen pollen of various colours coming in on a couple of days a week since the start of February, a week a go there was fresh nectar in the cells and all colonies have either a super or frame or two of comb added.

Another year it could be the other way round.

 

[Dishmop]

My bees have been out every day since the middle of February.
On several days all they seemed interested in doing was collecting water so I sprayed all the plants in the garden a few times.
My observation hive (4 frames) has nearly filled 2 deep frames with honey and one small area on one frame is now capped. They started to eat all that they had left over from their winter stores when they started flying.
At a guess there are more than twice the number of bees in there than there was about five weeks ago.
At this rate of build up it wont be too log before I have to split them and I will probably unit the ones I take out with an existing nuc which could do with a boost.

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Stimulative feeding is a ridiculous notion. Who on earth thinks that bees need to be coaxed. They are pretty good at doing what is best for their particular colony at any given time. If they are not brooding up, its for good reason so why interfere. For some beeks, I suppose they justify it as good management practice.

 

[Hivemaker.]

What does seem to be emerging this spring is a big contrast West to East

It seems that way, Alan, and quite a variation just within the west most days, yesterday the temperature here did manage to climb to 12c for a couple of hours after the fog had cleared, day before it was only 7c at 2pm, went up to 11c by 4pm but by 6pm back down to 8c, foggy most of the day....today, chilly, foggy and raining most of the day....many days have been like this.

 

[wightbees]

I was working outdoors todayin a T shirt,the same yesterday .osr fields are yellow but not quietthere yet.

 

[Dishmop]

Stimulative feeding is a ridiculous notion. Who on earth thinks that bees need to be coaxed. They are pretty good at doing what is best for their particular colony at any given time. If they are not brooding up, its for good reason so why interfere. For some beeks, I suppose they justify it as good management practice.

I have housed a swarm in a nuc box and within a very short time have seen the bees bringing pollen back..................

 

[iand]

"I'll do it tomorrow" doesn't seem to be something bees understand.

We had a nice hot day about 12c with the promise of tropical temps of 20c to come, some volunteer spring rape in flower (no winter as yet). So masses of pollen going in. They'd had a feed of syrup, so decided to miss a feed. What do we get 6-8c, no sun and sea mist cold winds, no bees to be seen. With plenty of new bees about and no incoming food, they managed their resources accordingly and stop brood rearing (some have used most of their food and getting a bit light). Not what you want if you require bees for pollination. So back on a feeding regime, if the weather allows them, they will get pollen, if we can get a few decent part days. Hopefully in the next fortnight the winter osr will start with a few flowers. We normally get an easterley at Osr time, if this it early. We should get a decent crop if the bees are ready.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I was working outdoors todayin a T shirt,the same yesterday .osr fields are yellow but not quietthere yet.

Completely different this side of the water - misty, cool and damp. OSR is in full flower though, and within range of my hives although none of them have found it yet.

 

[oliver90owner]

Stimulative feeding is a ridiculous notion.

Clearly not true.

If one wishes to take advantage of an OSR flow, there must be bees in sufficient numbers. If the bees are not brooding a full six weeks, or more, before the OSR flow they must be stimulated to start brooding or the crop would be diminished. Bee farmers rely on a decent crop to earn their living; they are not going to just give up on the possibility of an income from an early crop such as OSR.

The trouble with stimulating brooding is that once started, the process needs to be followed through until a flow occurs. The weather determines the OSR blooming, so specific dates are out of the question and the best estimate has to be made by the beekeeper on past experience and/or current observation. This season looks as though it will not be as far advanced as might have been thought earlier.

Even though it has been in partial bloom there has been little nectar collection this past few days due to insufficient temperatures. Bees are ready, but the weather is not. That may well change very quickly but it is certainly not in our control. If it remains too cool for nectar production the bees could well consume any surplus which they have already collected.

Remember 2012? Bees were well able to collect a surplus, but there just was no surplus for a period of around six or seven weeks while literally tonnes of feed was necessary to keep colonies alive during that period.

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Oliver90owner,

Sorry, but perhaps you missed my point. You are focussing on creating a false environment in order to cheat the naturally prevailing weather conditions in pursuit of a surplus honey crop. My point was that the bees can handle the differing weather and adapt accordingly to suit the colony’s needs at the time. The spanner in the works is thrown by the beekeeper.

 

[Dishmop]

We had a nice hot day about 12c with the promise of tropical temps of 20c to come, some volunteer spring rape in flower (no winter as yet). So masses of pollen going in. They'd had a feed of syrup, so decided to miss a feed. What do we get 6-8c, no sun and sea mist cold winds, no bees to be seen. With plenty of new bees about and no incoming food, they managed their resources accordingly and stop brood rearing (some have used most of their food and getting a bit light). Not what you want if you require bees for pollination. So back on a feeding regime, if the weather allows them, they will get pollen, if we can get a few decent part days. Hopefully in the next fortnight the winter osr will start with a few flowers. We normally get an easterley at Osr time, if this it early. We should get a decent crop if the bees are ready.

So do I understand this as basically after they have been out collecting food to eat and for stores, you then have a day or so of cooler weather, so you feed them?
I think an important word here is surely "stores". Am I wrong that bees collect much much more than they eat, and therefore that is how they manage to fill frames with what at the time of collection is excess to their immeditate needs?
When your bees start bringing in OS do you remove the frames of stores in your hives that surely must contain capped syrup?

 

[iand]

So do I understand this as basically after they have been out collecting food to eat and for stores, you then have a day or so of cooler weather, so you feed them?
I think an important word here is surely "stores". Am I wrong that bees collect much much more than they eat, and therefore that is how they manage to fill frames with what at the time of collection is excess to their immeditate needs?
When your bees start bringing in OS do you remove the frames of stores in your hives that surely must contain capped syrup?

Hi dishmop
They have been managing to just about keep up with pollen gathering, but temps high enough for nectar in any quantity as yet but a dream. Those hives which have a lot of bees and are rearing lots of brood are very light because of the poor weather we have been having and as mentioned before the Queen has taken a few days break. Yes I could have given them some frames of stores, but I wanted to help them rear brood, by giving them syrup to give the illusion of a small nectar flow. We have had one nice weekend, another one on the way (hopefully) forecast for 13c. Apart from that only a few odd hours suitable only for pollen/water gathering and at great risk to themselves because of the cold winds. The winter Osr has been held up by the weather, we may see some flower in a couple of weeks, but a field of yellow a long way off yet I’m afraid. If they should gather and store to much honey in their brood boxes, they will be exchanged for new comb or foundation. A frame of food is a useful resource when making up nucs

 

[Dishmop]

Makes you wonder how they manage without us..

Yes I could have given them some frames of stores

or you could have left it there to start with..

 

[iand]

Makes you wonder how they manage without us..

I was told of a beek 30 miles or so away that got fed up of feeding and paying to treat for mites etc. He left them to their own devices, did not take any honey off them for 3-4 years. They were OK until the bad summer we had a couple of years ago when they ran out of food apparently.
Yep makes you wonder.

 

[iand]

Makes you wonder how they manage without us..



or you could have left it there to start with..

or maybe just left it in drone layers etc, for all and sundry to rob out, instead of removing and treating.