Failing 2 weeks after move nuc to new hive

[cwinte]

New thread as new issue arises after earlier nuc move chatted under https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=45247
Summary of that above thread: Made a split nuc 10 July from my "hive1" with 4 shallow frames and QC. After a few bumps this seemed to be going OK, there was brood around 13 Aug. Needed to move it into a new hive and move 20m away from my door - seemed to go OK on 15th Aug.

NOW, not so good after I was away in France 15 days, house sitter was not a bee keeper...
The colony now very small and weak, though there is a queen easy to see there is no sign of laying or stores.
I think they've been robbed and/or she has got depressed and given up.

There were quite a lot of bits of legs etc by front door, no bodies though and in the grass it was too thick to see. The extensive biscuit capping across front door show there was extensive activity.

Now just 3 shallow sides of bees. I added a sugar feed last night but on reflection now, seeing a fight by the 2cm door, maybe that is just causing trouble and bringing in visitors. Was hoping this might kick start laying and recovery.

I suspect the 2-3 cups of bees and their queen will not last long like this.

I could unite them back to the hive they came from which I suspect is still not queen right. The main hive were a bit feisty last night (Tues), and at 6-7pm with clouds and cool it did not seem a great evening for pushing them further with more detailed inspecting.
The brood box of the hive (that the nuc came from) is pretty empty with just a few capped honey patches. Lots of bees and 20Kg of honey in supers.
I could also harvest some honey I guess but I'm more interested to get strong colonies established and through the winter.

My third & best hive could afford to donate 1 frame of brood or eggs to either the ex-nuc or the seemingly Q- hive. Ideally avoid weakening hive 3 if odds not high.

Ideas on my (the bees) best bets?
I have to Friday a.m. then away until Tuesday so timing is not great

Could leave it to Tuesday before deciding or
make one intervention either Thurs p.m. or Friday a.m. but forecasts not great (N Kent)...

 

[cwinte]

A little pollen seen going in

Heartening sign to see something useful going in. Maybe there will be a recovery?

 

[cwinte]

Update in the little colony from the nuc

Just had an inspect today and, as suspected, the queen is now laying. I have 3 patches of BIAS brood about 12cm diameter, and 3 shallows of bees. I think my feeds may have kicked her into laying- maybe she would have done it anyway. They have accumulated 1-2Kg of honey, some capped.

I'm worried about uniting to the large and rather aggressive queen less hive I have. Why? I do not want to loose this queen and end up with just one queen (and 3 hives), and over last 2 years at least 3 queens have "gone somewhere"...

I'm not sure about the best way to do a unite in the circumstances. (Large hive with lots of stores in 2 supers, no queen for 5 weeks+, empty brood box pretty much. My nuc of 5+ weeks migrated 20m to new site but still very small.)

Or I can feed and support the ex-nuc with a frame of brood and maybe even a frame of honey.

I also need to decide what to do with the large Q- hive... I could let them expire slowly... I could harvest 15-20Kg of honey and shake them out and close up hive
(A frame or 2 could go to the nuc.) Might this lead to trouble in other hives?

If I could unite with low risk to the nuc queen then that seems the best idea BUT how big is the risk to the queen????

I worry about the Q being killed but maybe her colony has low chances of survival anyway, unless I feed them lots AND we have good autumn AND get lucky.

How?
I could drop the 3 active frames from the ex-nuc hive into the middle of the Q- brood box with newspaper over the Q excluder. I'd assume her lay rate would rise and there would be more drawn brood frames available as well as a larger workforce. OR??

Advice will be much appreciated!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Unite
Transfer nuc to full size hive
Clear supers
Put Q- hive on top of Q+ through newspaper
Consolidate frames in three four days
Done

 

[cwinte]

Thanks, will do and post results after a week or so...

 

[cwinte]

late update by OP

Pretty happy...
Did not use paper, just placed 3 shallows in the main hive brood box.
Figure as they were sisters a few months ago they'll probably be OK and even higher chance they'll accept Q.

Since the merge there has been plenty of pollen going in (when my other hive also finds it) so I take that as there is now brood developing. While there were a few bee deaths the first day as the workers met and sorted themselves I think they welcomed a queen and all is well.

 

[Poly Hive]

You were extremely lucky. The sisters bit has nothing to do with anything.

Pure jam.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You were extremely lucky. The sisters bit has nothing to do with anything.

Maybe they shared a bedroom whilst going through puberty