Equalising hives in spring

[domino]

Moving brood frames between colonies to bring them to roughly the same strength.

I'm wondering for someone like me with about a dozen hives would it make sense to do this?

 

[madasafish]

Moving brood frames between colonies to bring them to roughly the same strength.

I'm wondering for someone like me with about a dozen hives would it make sense to do this?

I steal frames from feeder hives to make others stronger

 

[domino]

I steal frames from feeder hives to make others stronger

I was thinking more of moving frames between production hives. I've seen lots of people I respect online say they do this, I'm trying to scope the benefits for a small timer like me.

 

[Eyeman]

I downsized over the years to 12 main colonies with loads of nucs. I can usually equalise colonies by moving frames from the strong nucs and those 3 frame nucs that I'm overwintering queens in can donate all their brood once the queen has been used. Its more like boosting the weak so they will be all ready for the spring flow.

 

[drex]

I usually try to equalise in spring either by moving frames or whole colonies. I think it makes management a bit easier although colony sizes will spread as season goes on. Needless to say I do a careful disease inspection first.

 

[Poly Hive]

It masks the poor queens. So no I wouldn't.

PH

 

[B+.]

It masks the poor queens. So no I wouldn't.

PH

Also discussed here (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43649&page=2 ) from post 14 onwards

 

[Eyeman]

It masks the poor queens. So no I wouldn't.

PH

Only if you don't keep a record. Just requeen them later in the season.

 

[B+.]

Only if you don't keep a record. Just requeen them later in the season.

EVEN if you keep a record it affects their performance

 

[Poly Hive]

Records can get wet/blown away, deleted.

By the time one requeens later in the season there may well be drones about from those poor queens.

So... KISS

PH

 

[JEP]

Moving brood frames between colonies to bring them to roughly the same strength.

I'm wondering for someone like me with about a dozen hives would it make sense to do this?

It makes sense to do this but there are caveats.

1. Only take bees and brood from colonies that are so strong they can lose bees and brood and still maintain a brood nest as large as their queen can lay. So basically don't take anything from a colony that is not filling at least a double BS national hive with bees.

2. Don't bother adding bees and brood to a hive with a poor queen - you need to replace the queen first. If the queen is OK and is laying as large a broodnest as her bees can support e.g the hive is small because it went into winter as a late nuc etc. then it will be worth boosting.

3. Fairly obvious I would think - but don't breed from the queen in the boosted hive at a later date as she is unlikely to be a world beater (but she may be fine for honey production).

Some have made the point that the poor hive will produce more (potentially poor) drones as a result of this reinforcing procedure. This is true, but as you live in London and there is massive bee density, with drones from thousands of hives all around I personally wouldn't be too concerned about this.

Done correctly you may be able to prevent a strong hive from swarming and strengthen a weak hive and so increase the crop from both. Done badly and you will just weaken a good hive for no reason.

 

[Eyeman]

EVEN if you keep a record it affects their performance

Is everyone living in cloud cuckoo land?
Don't tell me all your colonies come through winter strong and equal strength?
If not then adding some brood to the weaker ones will get them up to speed.
Don't all 3 hive owners have 3 types of colonies in spring- one weak, one moderate & one strong.

 

[Eyeman]

Records can get wet/blown away, deleted.

By the time one requeens later in the season there may well be drones about from those poor queens.

So... KISS

PH

Who's requeening later in the season. just overwinter some nucs and queens are ready and waiting come spring time. tried and tested queens!

 

[Finman]

It masks the poor queens. So no I wouldn't.

PH

It does not mask anything. If masks, what then!

In spring we have collection of colonies and queens and we do not know what they are.

Some queens have lost their previous ability to lay. Nosema, one year older, weak cluster for varroa...

Some queens are in nucs with few frames

You buy an imported queens in spring and you need a colony to them

At least I want maximum amount of eggs to be brood in spring that I get foregers for summer.


You see from list, that moving brood frames does not mask anything. You only get the advantage from your queens what you have just now. You play the game with recent knowledge. After a month you have better knowledge.

If you do not assist with emerging brood unknown queens in small cluster, you will know anything about it. If colony grows too slow during spring, it cannot give any honey to you to be extracted. It is mere waste of work.

But when you have too small colonies in front of main yield, put hives together that you get a full size forager.
.

 

[mbc]

It's common practice to equalise colonies to a standard strength before going into pollination but it's unnecessary work early in the season if not, and may do more harm than good.
Ted Hooper suggests swapping positions of strong and weak hives early on so that the returning foragers do a bit of equalising, this could be an option if your hives are in the same apiary.
For myself I wouldn't weaken my best hives unless I needed to e.g. to stop them swarming or for making
nucs up or boosting cell raisers.

 

[Poly Hive]

Exactly.

PH

 

[Finman]

Ted Hooper suggests swapping positions of strong and weak hives early


For myself I wouldn't weaken my best hives unless I needed to e.g. to stop them swarming or for making
nucs up or boosting cell raisers.

Swapping makes no sense. A hive has nurser bees which take care of brood. Colony needs its nursers, and small colony's nursers are too few. At least operation stops the build up of strong colony.

To strenghten a small colony during smarming time is too late.

One full frame of brood gives 3 frames of bees. That is often enought to rise a colony to one box.

If I take two or three brood frames from a strong hive, hive will be short of those nurser bees which speed up best hives' build up. 3 brood frames are a whole brood box of bees.

.

 

[B+.]

Is everyone living in cloud cuckoo land?
Don't tell me all your colonies come through winter strong and equal strength?
If not then adding some brood to the weaker ones will get them up to speed.
Don't all 3 hive owners have 3 types of colonies in spring- one weak, one moderate & one strong.

Not at all.
I can see that your objective is to maximise your honey crop, and that's ok. If I was solely driven by honey yield, I might do the same.
My goals are different to yours, so, my methods are too. As a breeder, I test my stock to obtain consistent, comparable data. If I added/removed anything that would affect the colonies performance, I wouldn't get that. So, every colony is allowed to develop naturally. since they are control-mated, they are not only a reliable source of data on their own performance, but also, their full sisters.
I don't expect you to agree with my methods, but I do expect you to respect them.

 

[Finman]

So, every colony is allowed to develop naturally. since they are control-mated, .

That is your choice. And that does not mean, that when others manipulate apiarys' foraging power, they mask something. I would not get much honey, if I let the hives build up "naturally".

And I repeat, I do not load bad hives with good hives' brood frames. Who heck wouöd do that! . ...just "intellectual poking of true Englishman".

 

[Finman]

I don't expect you to agree with my methods, but I do expect you to respect them.

Beg on your knees pal!