Enyoying the results of wild mating

[user 20297]

No, I'm not speaking about personal experiences. I'm now seeing the results from two queens created in split, which have reached the stage where some of their offspring are foragers. At first I was quite surprised and started to think I had a huge raid of robbers. But close inspection and having watched the entrance a lot, I can see that the queen must have had liasons with quite a few Buckfast or similar.

From a starting point of the original queen who produces very dark bees with no hint of yellow/orange, I now have what appears to be a colony which is 50% Buckfasty. Far from being disappointed with this, I'm pleased to have the variety. Both queens are laying really well and I'll leave you to guess which one is laying down honey at the fastest rate.
The colonies both have equally good manners as the parent colony and can be managed with smoke just kept in the background for a crisis.

Obviously there is plenty of time for me to discover downsides to having such "mongrels" (I wish there was a better name), but maybe this positive experience will reassure a few other novices to beekeeping that it may be possible to be happy with your bees without having to buy into the system of using commercially raised queens.

 

[enrico]

No, I'm not speaking about personal experiences. I'm now seeing the results from two queens created in split, which have reached the stage where some of their offspring are foragers. At first I was quite surprised and started to think I had a huge raid of robbers. But close inspection and having watched the entrance a lot, I can see that the queen must have had liasons with quite a few Buckfast or similar.

From a starting point of the original queen who produces very dark bees with no hint of yellow/orange, I now have what appears to be a colony which is 50% Buckfasty. Far from being disappointed with this, I'm pleased to have the variety. Both queens are laying really well and I'll leave you to guess which one is laying down honey at the fastest rate.
The colonies both have equally good manners as the parent colony and can be managed with smoke just kept in the background for a crisis.

Obviously there is plenty of time for me to discover downsides to having such "mongrels" (I wish there was a better name), but maybe this positive experience will reassure a few other novices to beekeeping that it may be possible to be happy with your bees without having to buy into the system of using commercially raised queens.

I have only bought queen's once in 40 odd years. I just full grumpy ones and combine with my best. It takes years to get really good stock but it is worth it. On e beekeeper in your area with a nasty queen can alter the genetics frustratingly though!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have only bought queen's once in 40 odd years. I just full grumpy ones and combine with my best. It takes years to get really good stock but it is worth it. On e beekeeper in your area with a nasty queen can alter the genetics frustratingly though!

I have one just waiting for the squeeze. Thankfully there are few drones being produced
Awful bees. Looked in their only super and they all took to the air to get me

 

[rolande]

I think for most of us there's 3 basic routes we can choose from; let the bees do what they like with regards mating; buy into the Queen - chain and always rely on others to supply our stock or, to get something we're happy with and then try to skew the local population to our liking by means of selective queen rearing and drone production while enthusiastically accepting any benefits from the inevitable open mating mix.

Its nonsense to say that people can't breed bees unless they have pure sub species or complex multi hybrid lines to mix

Selection over time can improve what we have. I'm not against bringing in new stuff if I think it's going to be beneficial but I'm far less likely to do so now than in the past. Sustainability starts at home.

-------

Eric Osterlund, in his blog, mentions some advice that Br Adam gave to a guy who asked how best to improve his own bees in a small apiary. Buy new queen's every year? No. Divide the apiary into two equal groups of 'good' and 'bad' colonies. Raise a spare queen from each of the good colonies and use it to requeen one of the bad colonies. Repeat each year.

 

[bingevader]

Its nonsense to say that people can't breed bees unless they have pure sub species or complex multi hybrid lines to mix.

It might be nonsense, but I know (to the point of being impractical) it's extremely difficult for a back garden bee-haver with only a couple of hives.
In school, we have two hives at present. We are in a busy town with an active Association. Unless be bought in queens each year (which wouldn't be breeding or sustainable), we are totally governed by the local bee population. We can't chose who are queens breed with and don't have the hives to be that selective in what results. We try to split decent colonies, but are we going to have any bearing on selection over time? No.

 

[rolande]

Depends how badly you want it I suppose. If there are others in the same situation which I presume there must be and they all decide they can't do anything other than bring in queens every year then at the least why not try to form a group working with one kind of bought in queen? You'll never get everyone on side but there's more potential in combined effort than fatalism.

 

[Boston Bees]

Depends how badly you want it I suppose. If there are others in the same situation which I presume there must be and they all decide they can't do anything other than bring in queens every year then at the least why not try to form a group working with one kind of bought in queen? You'll never get everyone on side but there's more potential in combined effort than fatalism.

Not much more potential though.

Unless you can also convince all the feral colonies in the area to participate.

 

[rolande]

Not much more potential though.

Unless you can also convince all the feral colonies in the area to participate.

Why?

Surely that's missing the entire point of Beebe's thread?

 

[The Poot]

No, I'm not speaking about personal experiences. I'm now seeing the results from two queens created in split, which have reached the stage where some of their offspring are foragers. At first I was quite surprised and started to think I had a huge raid of robbers. But close inspection and having watched the entrance a lot, I can see that the queen must have had liasons with quite a few Buckfast or similar.

From a starting point of the original queen who produces very dark bees with no hint of yellow/orange, I now have what appears to be a colony which is 50% Buckfasty. Far from being disappointed with this, I'm pleased to have the variety. Both queens are laying really well and I'll leave you to guess which one is laying down honey at the fastest rate.
The colonies both have equally good manners as the parent colony and can be managed with smoke just kept in the background for a crisis.

Obviously there is plenty of time for me to discover downsides to having such "mongrels" (I wish there was a better name), but maybe this positive experience will reassure a few other novices to beekeeping that it may be possible to be happy with your bees without having to buy into the system of using commercially raised queens.

I started out with Buckfasts and have had seven years of “naturalisation” into local “ginger” mongrels with no issues. Two years ago a local beek brought in nine black queens from the West Country and my bees have started to change. This year one black colony from a supercedure queen last August, has become unmanageable and downright aggressive. My first experience with properly aggressive bees. Not good.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I started out with Buckfasts and have had seven years of “naturalisation” into local “ginger” mongrels with no issues. Two years ago a local beek brought in nine black queens from the West Country and my bees have started to change. This year one black colony from a supercedure queen last August, has become unmanageable and downright aggressive. My first experience with properly aggressive bees. Not good.

Next year he will have tetchy bees too

 

[user 20297]

Next hear he will have tetchy bees too

I almost certainly will have tetchy bees at some point; bring it on. Thanks for the cheery prediction. Next year, winter allowing, I will have sufficient colonies that I'll be able to let a few of them mature to be as big as possible. I suspect that, rather than the nature of the bees, is what might make dealing with them a bit less of a breeze.

Even if that does happen, I'm pleased that bees which have random origins in any case can interbreed with ones which may have a somewhat more traceable heritage and yet defy the doom-mongers by being initially (at least), very good bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was just meaning that if you have tetchy bees because your Buckfast have mingled with his black ones then the reverse may be true. His black bees may have been “polluted” by your orange ones.
I’m sure things will settle one way or another

 

[user 20297]

Surely that's missing the entire point of Beebe's thread?

Yes, I'm observing differently to much of the input I've read from others. Admittedly I'm a beekeeper of less than 18 months' experience. But my original, locally sourced bees of unknown heritage have interbred with random other local bees over whose genetics I have no influence and produced something with which this simple soul is happy. (For now.....?????? )

 

[Apiarist]

Obviously there is plenty of time for me to discover downsides to having such "mongrels" (I wish there was a better name),

Obviously there is plenty of time for me to discover downsides to having such "genetic diversity" (a good descriptive name),
???

 

[Newbeeneil]

These threads alway amuse me. Everyone is concerned about their precious queens mating with the "nasty local" drones but no one ever considers that some of these drones might have some very usable and positive traits.
I'm very much of the opinion that I should accept what I get initially then cull the ones I don't like. At least that way I'm always improving the stock in my apiaries and eventually having a small effect on the local population.

 

[REDWOOD]

I done one in last winter, so bad they followed my land rover