Emergency cells

[ShinySideUp]

How soon after a hive loses a queen will the bees start to create emergency cells?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Straightaway
They will know they are queen-less within a very short time
You should be able to spot them, with an untrained eye, three days later

 

[ShinySideUp]

Thank you. The reason I ask is because I have just received my first nuc and on transferring them to their new hive I saw emergency cells and I couldn't find the queen; although to be honest I didn't try too hard as the bees were getting very lairy, batting me and making a lot of noise. I didn't see any eggs or larvae but there were plenty of capped brood cells.

The people I bought the bees from are bringing me a new queen tomorrow (weather permitting) but I was just curious trying to work out how long it would be after the old queen had gone before a new emergency queen would start to create new brood.

I am assuming that a new queen comes out on day 16 after loss of the original, a day to settle down, hopefuly a day to mate, then egg-laying and the new workers come out 21 days after that. So even in the best of cases after the loss of a queen I couldn't expect any more workers until day 38 by which time the hive has lost a lot of time. Am I anywhere near right in my rough calculations?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I am assuming that a new queen comes out on day 16 after loss of the original

About twelve days.

a day to settle down, hopefuly a day to mate, then egg-laying and the new workers come out 21 days after that.

If the weather is suitable she could go on mating flights six or seven days after emerging, might not be for a month if, not good weather, then after mating two or three days to come into lay after the bees have fed her up....then 21 days later young bees emerge... if she mated okay. Might get eaten by a swallow.

 

[Brigsy]

Doesn't sound like you have been sold a Nuc in correct order. What's your relationship with the provider? Would be tempted to give it back if a commercial provider.

 

[drex]

I have had a queen take three weeks to come into lay, but that is exceptional. Usually leave it about 10 days before checking to see if she is laying. However Hooper says she mates after 10-20 days and lays a few days later. You know your development timings, so no unsealed larvae means no laying for 8-9 days. A nucs should contain a laying queen, brood in all stages and some stores.
Are they bringing you a mated queen, laying queen? Either way I would not be happy.

 

[bjosephd]

About twelve days.



If the weather is suitable she could go on mating flights six or seven days after emerging, might not be for a month if, not good weather, then after mating two or three days to come into lay after the bees have fed her up....then 21 days later young bees emerge... if she mated okay. Might get eaten by a swallow.

We have swallows nesting in an out-building/garage... last year they would just fly in circles around my hives in the orchard...

...while I was trying to get a new queen/split mated!

Somehow(!) she got mated and not eated!

But watching them skimming the ground in circle after circle... 'tis a miracle she wasn't gobbled!

I think this year if I need a queen mated I'll try and find some kind of out(ish) apiary!

 

[ShinySideUp]

Doesn't sound like you have been sold a Nuc in correct order. What's your relationship with the provider? Would be tempted to give it back if a commercial provider.

I have had a queen take three weeks to come into lay, but that is exceptional. Usually leave it about 10 days before checking to see if she is laying. However Hooper says she mates after 10-20 days and lays a few days later. You know your development timings, so no unsealed larvae means no laying for 8-9 days. A nucs should contain a laying queen, brood in all stages and some stores.
Are they bringing you a mated queen, laying queen? Either way I would not be happy.

Not their fault really as I wasn't supposed to get them for another couple of weeks but I pushed them for an early one because I had visitors and wabted to show them more than an empty hive. They brought me an over-wintered nuc which they hadn't opened but to all appearances seemed to be in good condition.

Also, because of the agitated state of the bees I cannot be sure that there were no eggs or larvae, indeed I might have mistaken deformed comb for emergency cells for all I know, in which case I'm going to look pretty stupid tomorrow.

 

[For want of a better word]

To be fair I have had about three out of twenty or so overwintered 6 frame Paynes Polly nucs of (Yellow) Italian bees that had gone recently queenless and still crammed full of bees.... showing all the angst of a queenless colony!
I do not sell that many nucs, but follow BBKA guidelines, and also check for a laying queen ( and sight of her!) BEFORE locking in for transport.

Have 10 Amm queens in the incubator.... not so sure about April going out like a lamb, but queen rearing has certainly started here!

(BTW I did not supply Shiney with bees.... but as I said will have lots of local Amms soon

Dui Gwenen Vikken!

 

[ShinySideUp]

OK, bee man came this evening and we went through the hive: I was right...but I was also wrong.

On the fourth frame we looked at, there was the queen in all her glory. Not only that but we had brood, eggs, larvae, honey, drones, everything one could want and in large quantities; one seriously strong colony.

Strangely though, I was right and there was an emergency queen cell and from this year too (in fact two of them). There was nothing in either of them so we bent them out of shape and put everything back together. The bees were much better behaved than on Friday and all seems well with the world.

What the emergency cell was doing there I have no idea but I'll keep an eye on them.

 

[For want of a better word]

Get them in a hive asap before they swarm due to inadequate space!
We often find some odd looking and empty cells in our yellow bees so do not panic too much!

Yeghes da

 

[ShinySideUp]

Get them in a hive asap before they swarm due to inadequate space!
We often find some odd looking and empty cells in our yellow bees so do not panic too much!

Yeghes da

I was putting them in the hive last Friday when I noticed the emergency cell so they have been happily expanding their horizons in their new home since then. The way they are going I don't think it'll be long before a super has to go on as they have already fully utilised one of the extra five frames that became available to them.

 

[Millet]

i was putting them in the hive last friday when i noticed the emergency cell so they have been happily expanding their horizons in their new home since then. The way they are going i don't think it'll be long before a super has to go on as they have already fully utilised one of the extra five frames that became available to them.

Haha

 

[drex]

I expect what you are calling an emergency cell is in fact just a "play cup". At this time of year they often make lots of them. These are potential queen cells. If they are empty, as they are more often than not, no worries. However if they contain a larva and and what looks like a dollop of cream ( Royal jelly) , then they are planning to swarm, and you need to implement your planned swarm prevention method.

 

[ShinySideUp]

I expect what you are calling an emergency cell is in fact just a "play cup". At this time of year they often make lots of them. These are potential queen cells. If they are empty, as they are more often than not, no worries. However if they contain a larva and and what looks like a dollop of cream ( Royal jelly) , then they are planning to swarm, and you need to implement your planned swarm prevention method.

No, definitely an emergency cell, we also found play cups as well. It was on the outside of the outermost frame too. I'll put it down to my first bee puzzle, I'm sure there will be a lot more, starting with...

...this morning, when I was looking at the hive from a distance of about four metres when a bee came straight up and stung me on the finger. I wasn't moving, making a noise, nor was I in a direct line with the entrance. Spiteful little sod.

 

[wightbees]

Haha now that made me laugh

 

[Brigsy]

Your luck's bound to change soon

 

[Gilberdyke John]

No, definitely an emergency cell, we also found play cups as well. It was on the outside of the outermost frame too. I'll put it down to my first bee puzzle, I'm sure there will be a lot more, starting with...

...this morning, when I was looking at the hive from a distance of about four metres when a bee came straight up and stung me on the finger. I wasn't moving, making a noise, nor was I in a direct line with the entrance. Spiteful little sod.

Yorkshire beehives used to have a description of guard bees on their website - "SAS trained Ninja assassins"