Ejecting Larvae

[Vanterrier]

I noticed a half dozen or more nearly fully formed larvae in and around the entrance today. I watched a bee wrestle one out of the hive and drop it before flying back to the hive.
What's going on? Are these unwanted drone larvae. Do I have a problem?
K

 

[Vanterrier]

Just seen this below...

Thread 'Ejected larvae' Ejected larvae

Anything to add?

K

 

[enrico]

Just seen this below...

Thread 'Ejected larvae' Ejected larvae

Anything to add?

K

Nope, perfectly normal

 

[ericbeaumont]

What's going on? Do I have a problem?

Could be ejected unwanted drone, but the chewing, deformed wings and tongue sticking out on those pupae suggest heavy varroa infestation.

 

[Vanterrier]

They got six weeks of Apivar from 25th Aug. Mite drop during treatment was quite low I think.
I checked each day for the first week...
32, 25, 61, 102, 78, 37, 48 per day then once per week for the remaining six weeks with daily count being in single figures right to the end of treatment.
So hopefully it's not that. I know tray counts are not accurate but for daily drops during treatment I think they do give an indication. Certainly compared with some photos I've seen posted on these forums...
K

 

[ericbeaumont]

six weeks of Apivar from 25th Aug. Mite drop during treatment was quite low

Resistance to Apivar has been recorded; unsurprising, since it does not have the broad-range effect on varroa of thymol or oxalic. Do you have sharper photos of the chewed pupae?

 

[Vanterrier]

Best I can do here... I'm no David Bailey

 

[Paulypaul]

I had the same at the front door of my strongest colony, last week. I assume it's drone brood. I haven't seen a drone at my hives for a couple of weeks.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I assume it's drone brood

It is, but what was the condition of the pupae: complete & healthy?

 

[Swarm]

Looks more like worker pupae to me judging by the eyes.
Six weeks of Apivar is the minimum duration for treatment, which is suggested as six to eight, with a recommendation of extending the treatment to ten weeks.

 

[madasafish]

Check stores.
Bees will eject larvae if no food.

 

[Paulypaul]

It is, but what was the condition of the pupae: complete & healthy?

Didn't see anything that struck me as deformed. Everything was symmetrical. Only 2 pupae left outside the door.

 

[Vanterrier]

Check stores.
Bees will eject larvae if no food.

I think you are correct

More larvae found, probably around 50 immediately below entrance.

Hefted a couple of days ago and was light enough to lift with one finger so put some fondant in a feeder in a shallow eke with insulation. Looked again today and fondant gone, feeder stuffed with bees. Put another kg of fondant in.
Weather has been wet for days now and Ivy looks pretty much finished so I dont think I have much choice but to feed them.
Do I just keep filling the feeder until either they stop taking it down or the hive feels heavier?
Do I just put the whole 12.5kg slab of fondant in the eke and leave them to it?
Do I need to look inside BB to see what's going on? I'm afraid to disturb them but what if I have no winter bee brood now?

K

 

[drex]

If you can lift with one finger, certainly very low on stores. I would put the whole block of fondant on. Sit it above frames on a QE. Will need an eke or empty super. Well wrapped so does not dry out, and leave them to it. Insulation above CB ( and around fondant if using a super) Nothing you can do otherwise so do not lift frames

 

[Ian123]

I think you are correct

More larvae found, probably around 50 immediately below entrance.

Hefted a couple of days ago and was light enough to lift with one finger so put some fondant in a feeder in a shallow eke with insulation. Looked again today and fondant gone, feeder stuffed with bees. Put another kg of fondant in.
Weather has been wet for days now and Ivy looks pretty much finished so I dont think I have much choice but to feed them.
Do I just keep filling the feeder until either they stop taking it down or the hive feels heavier?
Do I just put the whole 12.5kg slab of fondant in the eke and leave them to it?
Do I need to look inside BB to see what's going on? I'm afraid to disturb them but what if I have no winter bee brood now?

K

If the situation is that bad with stores I’d get some syrup on forget the fondant..

 

[madasafish]

I would (and have done myself ) feed both fondant AND syrup.
Best of both worlds..

 

[Vanterrier]

Didn't have syrup nor sugar to make any and didn't fancy a 20 mile round trip to the shops to buy any so followed Drex' advice ( thanks ) and put a QE on the top frames and the slab of fondant directly on top of that above the cluster. Surrounded with eke and filled gap with bag full of loose fill insulation. Added unframed CB (no vents) then roof with 50mm Kingspan.
Bees were remarkably tolerant if a bit lively.
I also added a polythene bag over the roof and 3/4 way down the BB as the forecast is again for more heavy rain

Checked later and there was a small crowd of bees "dancing" in front of the hive in the brief spell of sunshine. No more larvae...

How long will 12.5kg fondant last? Will they (can they) just eat it or will they store below in in the BB?

Better order some more I suppose.

Thanks all for your advice.

K

 

[user 819]

My colonies store it if they are short of stores or have room store it, I have had one colony demolish a whole 12.5kg block in 10 days.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Will they (can they) just eat it or will they store below in in the BB?

they will store it as long as they have the space.

 

[drex]

I will usually have some fondant available, just in case I got it wrong in autumn. Occasionally needed early in new year. I would suggest Vanterier gets another pack ( lasts for years in right conditions) and hefts fortnightly. By the time any need comes to feed more he will have learned the art of hefting