Eggs :)

[greengumbo]

Morning all.

First ever bees arrived in nuc from my friend a week ago. Previously never seen queen but a queen cell had hatched early June. He had bee through them since then and never seen eggs but we were not worried as weather has been so rubbish.

Left them to settle and fed them a bit. I noticed bees round the garden with lots of pollen so with hope we went through the nuc last night and found 1-2 day old eggs on 2 frames. Still didnt see the queen but I'm not fussed by that at the moment.

Going to leave it until a "nice day" to transfer to my full sized hive. Thinking another 8 or 9 days so that I can see if eggs are workers or drones.
There is a frame of foundation that is not drawn yet in there and the weather has been shocking.
Well chuffed. Should I keep feeding them ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Should I keep feeding them ?

Only if they need it - if there are stores in the nuc (about one frame is ample) and they are foraging, they should be able to fend for themselves you don't want them filling cells with food when the queen is looking for laying space

 

[aberreef]

Keep them in the nuc for a little while longer until the colony is quite strong and filling the box.

Also, and here's the bad bit sorry, there's still a possibility that the queen is a drone layer and not managed to mate properly. You'll find out in a week or two once the cells are sealed.

Fingers crossed all works out well though. It's exciting watching a new queen and colony develop

 

[Poly Hive]

They are a baby unit and not ready for a full hive until they have at least, at least three frames of sealed brood.

Patience.

If you transfer them as they are you will seriously hold them back.

Patience.

If you have none so far the bees will soon teach some...LOL

PH (who by nature is very impatient but well taught now)

 

[greengumbo]

Hello again !

So things get more confusing.

On friday the weather was nice and sunny so I decided to have a quick look and see if I could see if the eggs I had seen last week had been sealed as worker or drone. My mentor was away on holiday but was keen as me to know about the state of the brood.

I was pretty nervous so carefully gave a few puffs of smoke and then opened up the hive. Immediatley I was getting battered by bees - probably quite normal behaviour ! I had a look at the first frame - full of stores with a few inches of capped honey at the top of the frame. I then went on to the second frame and saw lots of single eggs across the frame....on the other side however there was a single large capped queen cell bang in the middle of the frame on its own. At this point the weather was turning a bit and the bees were very grumpy indeed. I didn't really want to disturb them any more, especially with the large QC and so didn't get to see the frames I had hoped had sealed worker brood on by now.

So what might be going on ? The nucleus history is as follows:

5th June queen was due to hatch in 6 frame nuc (plenty stores / bees / brood).
June = terrible weather and on 2 inspections no queen found and no eggs. On 2nd inspection at end of June, mentor placed capped QC in nuc along with frame of eggs from one of his other hives and left alone in case the original queen was not in there.
8th July moved nuc to my wee apiary.
9th July bees orientating around and then bringing in loads of pollen.
12 July nice enough to inspect. No sign of capped QC. No queen found but eggs on 2 frames. I frame undrawn foundation.
20th July quick look as described above. Only inspected 2 frames and saw eggs and large sealed QC in the middle of the frame. Bees very aggressive.

I have done some reading and think maybe that the original queen from early June was in the hive and started to lay around the 10-12th July but was either poorly mated or got damaged and so the bees are doing supercedure ?

But if there are eggs it means the original queen was still laying up to a few days ago at least ?

From what I have read and saw (no multiple eggs in cells, nice coverage) it doesnt look like DLWs.

Could they have swarmed very recently ? Could the eggs be just old ones that have been non viable or would the workers clear these out ?

I am inclined to leave them alone for a week and then do a full inspection. Patience as I've been told (hard when so excited about them !!)

 

[MuswellMetro]

The workers dont like your queen and are going for a natural supersedure

so her pheromones could be low or they think she is not laying correctly, possible due to bad mating.......or you killed the queen on the last inspection

 

[greengumbo]

All previous inspections were by an experienced Beek with me just watching and grinning inanely

The weather has been foul with only 2 days in June that looked likely for mating so I am guessing that's the problem then. Thanks for the advice !

Should I just let them get on with it and hope this one hatches and mates successfully ?

 

[REDWOOD]

classic example of supersedure, leave alone and let the bees sort them self's out

 

[greengumbo]

Okay so have left alone as advised ! Its been a week since last quick and grumpy bee inspection. As its been lovely and sunny I walked round the front of the hive half an hour ago to see if they were bringing in much. Wow ! So busy flying in and out from a field of big white daisies next to our garden (was OSR a few months back).

Only thing was I noticed a bee outside on the ground dead at the hive entrance and it was a queen !! Quite small from others I have seen but very distinct with that longer body.

I am guessing that the supercedure cells have hatched and one has killed the other leaving one in charge ?? I hope so. Bees were also far less grumpy and actually really tame.

Am I correct do you suppose ?

 

[oliver90owner]

Correct. You are guessing, just as we would be.

Just be patient now, and hope all goes well.

Wait for the experienced beek to have a look-see.

 

[greengumbo]

Managed to have a quick look sunday evening and saw some lovely brood pattern - sealed worker cells in the centre of all the frames. They have not drawn out the foundation on one frame at the edge yet but I saw some signs they are beginging to ! Unfortunately, as per usual this year, the weather closed in while inspecting so I popped the top back on. Happy though.

Just need a lovely day to have a proper look and swap them into my hive proper

 

[beeno]

Just need a lovely day to have a proper look and swap them into my hive proper

Going great! Just make sure that you have enough bees for a hive proper otherwise you will suffer a set back! Check it out with the pros.

 

[drstitson]

you need to leave alone for longer until the new queen gets mated.

 

[aberreef]

you need to leave alone for longer until the new queen gets mated.

Already has by the sounds of it

Great news on the sealed brood Greengumbo, glad she mated well for you. Don't be in too much of a rush to transfer into a full hive although they will need it soon if all the frames have brood. Something to watch out for is the comb being blocked with stores, especially if there is a good nectar flow on where you are.

 

[oliver90owner]

Just make sure that you have enough bees for a hive proper otherwise you will suffer a set back

There is no need whatsoever to get any setback by moving to a full hive. It is just that the job needs doing properly - not just giving them a huge cavern, with through draughts, to keep warm. If you want to set them back give them the whole, full quota, of foundation and leave them to struggle along.

A properly divided and insulated draught-free compartment with just a couple of foundation frames for them to draw, is the way to go. In effect a slightly enlarged nuc within the much larger box.

RAB

 

[greengumbo]

Cheers Rab thats what I aim to do. Lots of forage coming into flower at the moment (RBWH and daisies / thistles) and better weather on the horizon so fingers crossed. I am going to wait till a nice day for the move and place the frames to one side of the brood box, add a few frames of foundation then use a dummy board to keep it nice and snug. Any other tips to be aware of during the actual transfer or is quick and careful the main thing to keep in mind ?

A lot of wasps around today sniffing about the nuc but the guards seem to be doing well against them !

When I transfer I will double check for eggs again to make sure the queen is laying and it wasnt sealed brood from a deposed queen I saw but thanks for the heads up drstitson.

 

[greengumbo]

Hmmm so it seems I was wrong about the nice brood pattern (it was pretty dark when I looked last time out in July)

Okay so I transfered them on friday when it was an absolute cracking day up here. Moved the nuc to the side, placed the poly hive from MB "beebox" on the original site. Used a small puff of smoke and opened them up - wow what a change in temprament - very chilled out bees. I had measured and prepared the conversion frames for national to langstroth the night before and practiced it a few times. In reality it was a breeze.

First frame out had an arc of capped honey and pollen and lots of bees - its at this point I saw HM and after having a slight panic I slowly placed the frame into the new hive gently swiftly followed by the others. In total I saw 2 open queen cells (as suspected) with serated bottom edges and 3 frames of capped worker brood BUT no eggs or large larvae. I was very careful to double and triple check but nothing. Hmmmm I wonder if HM is not mated yet afterall. Plenty pollen coming in so it could be imminent and the weather has been improving the lst two weeks. Anyway gave them a frame of foundation as not much room in there and closed up.

I'm getting worried that if I dont see eggs next week then I might have to seriously consider buying a mated queen and offing this one

 

[karen p]

Be patient. One of my hives swarmed on 12th May. Caught and housed swarm. Original colony still had no eggs on 21st June when I went on holiday. Thought I might have to re-queen on my return . Early July eggs appeared, so six weeks from swarming. They are now on brood and a half.

 

[greengumbo]

One thing I have noticed is the activity of the hive has ramped up since moving them from the nuc into the poly hive. They are out foraging much earlier in the day. Usually I have a quick look at the entrance before heading out to work at 730 and see nothing but a few bees sitting at the entrance.

The last three days since moving they are coming and going at about 7am even on a misty colder morning like today. Its nice to see.

 

[greengumbo]

Update:

I now understand how people miss seeing eggs !

Had left my hive alone since moving into the MB poly and the activity was really good especially with the upturn in weather but I never noticed any pollen coming in. I had dummied down and reduced the entrance and managed to get them drawing 2 frames after feeding (they take all the bloomin feed I give them - productive wee beasts).

I went to inspect them this weekend. Going through the frames I saw loads of capped stores around the tops and sides on nearly every frame. The outer frame was drawn and getting filled with honey. I could also see uncapped honey across the middle and bottom cells of each frame but to my eyes there was nothing else. All the brood from previous had hatched and no new capped or anything. Found the queen on the last frame hiding - thought she looked fatter than previous.

My beek mate came over with a frame of eggs and brood to put in to see whats what and as he was he saw eggs on three frames in an oval of cells in the middle of the frame. Not heaps but there none the less. I had totally missed them ! So HM is happy laying now. I will leave her to it and have a quick look in about a week to see if the brood is worker.

So hatched about the 25th July and laying 16th August.

I'm now a happy beek.