Drone Laying Worker?

[Robert Denny]

I have been concerned for a week or so that the activity from one of my over wintered hives has been diminishing and no or little pollen was being taken in.
I inspected this morning; bees over 4 (National) brood combs but no eggs or brood but for a couple of small areas of what looks like capped drone brood.
I have put a frame of eggs and larvae from a strong hive in to see what, if anything develops?
Is there anything else I can do or should have done?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Failing/failed queen is most likely.
Find her and shake the bees out near another hive if you have one

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

shake them out whether you find her or not

 

[Erichalfbee]

shake them out whether you find her or not

Yes probably easier but I still like to pinch mine
Good day for it.

 

[Robert Denny]

Thank you both.
I have 4 other hives.
The idea being that they will augment the nearest hive to where they are shaken? Do they fly or walk in? I ask because my hives are on 3' high stands.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The idea being that they will augment the nearest hive to where they are shaken? Do they fly or walk in? I ask because my hives are on 3' high stands.

They will beg their way into any colony that will accept them, this will also supress their laying instincts.
They will fly in - don't worry about the height of the stands

 

[Robert Denny]

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I pinched and shook one
Had a quick look at stores on the others. Moved one store frame into another which was running on vapour. On leaving realised I hadn’t checked the hive next to the now dead colony. Blow me! A ball of bees round the queen on the top bars. Gave them all so much smoke I was coughing. Who knows. Time will tell next time I look in.

 

[Etton]

I have the same problem, capped drone cells through out. I thought I had 3 options...
Shook swarm
Merge with another (weaker) hive
Add eggs from another hive

I decided to add eggs. I’m thinking maybe I should have done the shook swarm, why is this the main advice on this posting?
If I change my mind to do this then I’ll do it today before the weather changes.

 

[Etton]

Another photo

 

[Ian123]

Shook swarm achieves nothing at the best of times and sweet FA in the instance of a DLQ/workers you’ll end up with the same bees in another box. If you can find the queen it’s possible to merge but lots of older bees and probably not worth the agro. Adding eggs means older bees making a poor queen and little chance of mating this early on. Just shake them out as advised above. Ian

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have the same problem, capped drone cells through out. I thought I had 3 options...
Shook swarm
Merge with another (weaker) hive
Add eggs from another hive

I decided to add eggs. I’m thinking maybe I should have done the shook swarm, why is this the main advice on this posting?
If I change my mind to do this then I’ll do it today before the weather changes.

You mean shake them out?

 

[Boston Bees]

maybe I should have done the shook swarm, why is this the main advice on this posting?

Etton, as Dani suggests, I think you are misunderstanding what people mean. When people say "shake them out" about a drone-laying colony like this, they don't mean do a shook swarm. They mean shake the bees out in front of another colony, take their hive equipment away completely, and let them beg their way into the other hive(s).

A shook swarm is something completely different, and nothing to do with drone-laying queens or workers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I decided to add eggs. I’m thinking maybe I should have done the shook swarm, why is this the main advice on this posting?
If I change my mind to do this then I’ll do it today before the weather changes.

Noone advised a shook swarm - what we said is just plain, dump them out to fend for themselves. the queen is a drone layer, a dud, beyond redemption, adding eggs will achieve nothing whatsoever. time to cut your losses on this colony I'm afraid.

 

[Etton]

Thanks for all advice, yes I was getting confused between a shake out & a shook swarm.
Will shake out this afternoon.

 

[Spadger]

Checked some of my hives today. One seems to have a drone laying queen. She was a late supercedure last August.
With no drone brood let alone drones in my other colonies it’s either merge ( assuming I can find and remove the queen) or shakeout. Apart from the obvious queen problem the colony seems really strong and active, though it must be rammed with old bees. Pros and cons of merge or shake out?

 

[Boston Bees]

Question - with a DLQ, if you can't find the queen, but shake them out anyway, wouldn't they just cluster on the queen, and try to find a handy chimney somewhere (they wouldn't live for long of course, but still). So my question is - if you can't find the queen, should you still shake them out? Or delay until you can find and despatch her?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Checked some of my hives today. One seems to have a drone laying queen. She was a late supercedure last August.
With no drone brood let alone drones in my other colonies it’s either merge ( assuming I can find and remove the queen) or shakeout. Apart from the obvious queen problem the colony seems really strong and active, though it must be rammed with old bees. Pros and cons of merge or shake out?

I like a shake out which you can do even if you can't find the queen. Merging is fine if there are masses of bees and you can find and dispatch the queen and have warm weather in the interval between merging and consolidating frames

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Question - with a DLQ, if you can't find the queen, but shake them out anyway, wouldn't they just cluster on the queen, and try to find a handy chimney somewhere

Just shake them out, if they do cluster around the queen, you usually find it ends up as a pitiful small handful of bees which, by the following morning have perished.

 

[Ian123]

I’ve merged drone layers with small Nucs before after winter. But only if you can find the queen, no point on wasting the effort if the wrong 1 ends up on top. And again only if the drone laying colony is still looking reasonable/numbers. Never bothered with anything that looks like a laying worker though. Effectively it just adds a few bees to a struggling nuc, if they do nothing else but cover some additional brood they’ve done a job. Most just get the shake out treatment. Ian