Drone Foundation?

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I have inherited a couple of hives form a beekeeper who has moved out of area.

I have been told that all of the brood box frames are on standard foundation, and there is not a 'drone frame'.

Is not having drone frame a problem? If you don't have larger foundation for the bees to raise drones in do they just make do and enlarge standard worker cells as required, or do they squeeze the drones into the cells that they have, or do they make additional comb on below the frames on the bottom bars?

I am tempted to add a frame of larger foundation to the brood box (I see that Thornes sell drone base foundation)
  • is this standard practice?
  • I understand it can help with Varroa control - how is that best done?
  • where in the brood box is it best to place this frame?
Thanks in advance for suggestions and explanations.
 
I have inherited a couple of hives form a beekeeper who has moved out of area.

I have been told that all of the brood box frames are on standard foundation, and there is not a 'drone frame'.

Is not having drone frame a problem? If you don't have larger foundation for the bees to raise drones in do they just make do and enlarge standard worker cells as required, or do they squeeze the drones into the cells that they have, or do they make additional comb on below the frames on the bottom bars?

I am tempted to add a frame of larger foundation to the brood box (I see that Thornes sell drone base foundation)
  • is this standard practice?
  • I understand it can help with Varroa control - how is that best done?
  • where in the brood box is it best to place this frame?
Thanks in advance for suggestions and explanations.
Drone comb removal for varroa control is a complete waste of time and effort for the bees if you intend to go the more traditional treatment route. The bees will build more than enough drone cells in your standard worker base foundation, if they want it or need it. Also depends on time of year and size of colony. Just give them the boxes/frames as needed they’ll do the rest. Ian
 
In every hive I do tend to pop a super frame amongst the brood frames. They draw it down and it is usually drone developed. A lovely colony then will have a good supply of extra drones to go on mating missions. But the bees themselves will develop drone sized cells in brood frames if you prefer.
My super frame-the extra wax is unwired, so I can break a little off to check for varroa numbers as they do prefer drone brood, and it gives me an extra indication of any problem.
 
I have inherited a couple of hives form a beekeeper who has moved out of area.

I have been told that all of the brood box frames are on standard foundation, and there is not a 'drone frame'.

Is not having drone frame a problem? If you don't have larger foundation for the bees to raise drones in do they just make do and enlarge standard worker cells as required, or do they squeeze the drones into the cells that they have, or do they make additional comb on below the frames on the bottom bars?

I am tempted to add a frame of larger foundation to the brood box (I see that Thornes sell drone base foundation)
  • is this standard practice?
  • I understand it can help with Varroa control - how is that best done?
  • where in the brood box is it best to place this frame?
Thanks in advance for suggestions and explanations.

Personally, I like giving each box at least one frame with just a starter strip in, so they can build natural comb of whatever size they want. This is often drone comb, but will be used for honey in winter (it is often a mix of cell sizes - some worker, some drone, which is quite nice). It stops them having to force drone comb into the spaces between the frames, or enlarge worker cells. It also increases the number of drones, which should help my queens get mated properly.

You can also do this by putting a super frame or two into the brood box as mentioned above, which also has its pros and cons.

I don't remove the drone comb as part of varroa control, as that would defeat the purposes mentioned above - I use other ways of controlling varroa.

Enlarging worker cells is not a particularly comfortable way for them to make drone cells, and if they put them in the burr comb between boxes you end up ripping them open when you inspect.

(In the very very long term I intend to go 100% foundationless, but that is going to take many many years.)
 
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Is not having drone frame a problem?
No - never had a 'drone frame' in any of my hives ever - the bees will reengineer the comb as they see fit to achieve their 20% drone 'comfort zone'
I am tempted to add a frame of larger foundation to the brood box (I see that Thornes sell drone base foundation)
  • is this standard practice?
No, although some people do put in a frame of drone foundation to try and boost the drone population in the immediate area, maybe not a bad idea seeing the amount of people who still blindly follow the 'drone harvest to eradicate varroa' mantra.
Queen breeders often encourage drone production in the same way to try and ensure good queen open mating
  • I understand it can help with Varroa control - how is that best done?
It's best not done - it's a pretty pointless exercise
  • where in the brood box is it best to place this frame?
If you're minded to do it, it's better placed at the edge of the brood area.
 
Take your dummy board out if you use one and give the frame of drone comb a little more space than the hoffman set up and avoid uncapping the little fellas when you inspect. The dome on drone cells often becomes stuck to the adjacent comb. ;)
 
If you read Tom Seeley's latest book he talks about the fact that in the wild colonies have circa 25% drone. Now are our bees here the same as his, are managed hives the same as wild. Lots of questions, but if we assume yes then hives here generally have far less drone in them. Several beekeepers i know, and i am starting to do the same put at least one frame per hive/per box of drone foundation in to encourage more drones. The negative of course is increased potential varroa, the positive is that it is generally agreed, but unproven, that you get better tempered bees etc. Bit like putting girls in a classroom of boys calms the boys down, getting more drones seems to calm bees down more. The research is there on % of drone, but not what affect not have this % does. But given bees have developed over millions of years, my view is that this must be what they want and thus i support them with drone foundation. Now of course there is an argument that says rather than force them to build drone if you put a super frame into they can choose whether they want to build drone or not, that is also true, but i find it a pain so keep to my one frame of drone foundation per box, run on two boxes each of 8 BS national.
 
where in the brood box is it best to place this frame?
If you're minded to do it, it's better placed at the edge of the brood area.
Jonathan Getty says he puts his drone frames in the middle of the nest.
(And a frame of drones in the 3 frame nucs he takes to mating sites.)
 
That's funny. From my observation, my bees normally make drone comb on the periphery of the brood nest, when they are free to build what they want, where they want it
Yes, I think his point of view is that if you're putting in drone comb specifically to encourage plenty of drones with your desired genetics, you want them as well nurtured as possible.

(Important for the big breeders, but also for mere mortals like us who'd want more of our best colonies' genetics out there, I guess.)
 

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