Drone breeding

[Hoanui]

Should I pay as much attention to drone breeding as I'll do with queen breeding or should they be left to sort it out themselves? Know of any good articles on it?

 

[PBee]

Equally as important and much more work to do it right. If you are not in an isolated area or have access to a secure mating area, results may be variable.

 

[Hoanui]

Thank you for the document. I'll give it a read in the morning.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Should I pay as much attention to drone breeding as I'll do with queen breeding or should they be left to sort it out themselves? Know of any good articles on it?

Hoanui

in previous posts you have said that this is your first Hive, so i assume that you will only have one hive for the next year,

so lets start from the beginning

a virgin Queen mates with 20 to 25 drones in her mating flights

but If a virgin queen mates with drones from her mother queen (ie from the same hive) then her eggs that are fertilised by that drone are male rather than female ( incest is not a good idea in bees, and even if they survive the diploid drones are nearly sterile)

the inbred drones are called Diploid drones and most are in fact killed by the nurse bees and you get poor brood paterns,

So if you have only one hive, there is no point in breeding more drones as you dont want them to mate with your next new virgin queen

Now if you have 25 hives, then yes then breed drones from your better hives ( but watch for inbreeding)

read up on haploid drones, these are the normal drones the female queen lays, the are from her unfertilsed eggs and are hapolid male copies of her ( sex in Bees ain't the same as mammals)

 

[Hoanui]

OK, thank you for the clarification.

 

[pargyle]

Hoanui

in previous posts you have said that this is your first Hive, so i assume that you will only have one hive for the next year,

so lets start from the beginning

a virgin Queen mates with 20 to 25 drones in her mating flights

but If a virgin queen mates with drones from her mother queen (ie from the same hive) then her eggs that are fertilised by that drone are male rather than female ( incest is not a good idea in bees, and even if they survive the diploid drones are nearly sterile)

the inbred drones are called Diploid drones and most are in fact killed by the nurse bees and you get poor brood paterns,

So if you have only one hive, there is no point in breeding more drones as you dont want them to mate with your next new virgin queen

Now if you have 25 hives, then yes then breed drones from your better hives ( but watch for inbreeding)

read up on haploid drones, these are the normal drones the female queen lays, the are from her unfertilsed eggs and are hapolid male copies of her ( sex in Bees ain't the same as mammals)

I have been reading about drones and sex in bees over the last month (I know ...sad isn't it ?)... it's a subject not really covered with immense clarity in any of my bee books ... even the section in Hooper is confusing (perhaps my inadequate brain).

I wasn't considering breeding in any formal sense ... our association is starting a queen rearing programme for members and I was researching to give myself a small platform of knowledge to start with. To say that I was confused about drones and the potential for in-breeding would be an understatement.

It appears that, in a 'normal' and varied bee population in an area, bees actively avoid incest ... it is only when the desire to propagate is strong and there are no other colonies in the vicinity of the DCA to provide drones that it actually occurs. It's not something that should be artificially engineered if that is what the OP was thinking ?

If you have a colony with good characteristics and you are seeking to improve the gene pool in your locality then that's something else but it's only going to benefit other beekeepers if you only have the one hive ... very philanthropic - unless you have the hive from hell !!

For what it's worth I've also recently read Jay Smiths book 'Queen Rearing Simplified' .. free on line at:

http://www.archive.org/stream/queenrearingsimp00smit#page/n7/mode/2up/search/1

Whilst it is an old book (1923) and the equipment and style of beekeeping has changed there's an awful lot of good and still relevant information in there ... not a lot about drones though !!

 

[Little John]

Whilst it is an old book (1923) and the equipment and style of beekeeping has changed there's an awful lot of good and still relevant information in there ...

I love old beekeeping books - sometime they can produce some real classics - such as this one from A Treatise on the Breeding and Management of Bees, by John Keys (1814):

"When a swarm attempts to settle on a person, standing or walking, &c. let him not be alarmed, nor in any wise oppose them, but lift the hat a little above the head; perhaps they will settle on that ..."

Can't you just see that happening - in the days when everyone wore a hat, of course.

LJ

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have been reading about drones and sex in bees over the last month (I know ...sad isn't it ?)... it's a subject not really covered with immense clarity in any of my bee books ... even the section in Hooper is confusing (perhaps my inadequate brain).

I wasn't considering breeding in any formal sense ... our association is starting a queen rearing programme for members and I was researching to give myself a small platform of knowledge to start with. To say that I was confused about drones and the potential for in-breeding would be an understatement.

It appears that, in a 'normal' and varied bee population in an area, bees actively avoid incest ... it is only when the desire to propagate is strong and there are no other colonies in the vicinity of the DCA to provide drones that it actually occurs. It's not something that should be artificially engineered if that is what the OP was thinking ?

If you have a colony with good characteristics and you are seeking to improve the gene pool in your locality then that's something else but it's only going to benefit other beekeepers if you only have the one hive ... very philanthropic - unless you have the hive from hell !!

For what it's worth I've also recently read Jay Smiths book 'Queen Rearing Simplified' .. free on line at:

http://www.archive.org/stream/queenrearingsimp00smit#page/n7/mode/2up/search/1

Whilst it is an old book (1923) and the equipment and style of beekeeping has changed there's an awful lot of good and still relevant information in there ... not a lot about drones though !!

i was quite surprised when moving 10 hives just two miles how the brood pattern of this years new queens improve by the change in Drone congregation Area, wall to wall solid brood as opposed to spotty brood due to interbred bees

remeber a drone from any one hive has no father only the same grandfather so several hives on one isolated DCA can be very closly related being homozygous at the sex locus