Double brood or demaree?

[Do224]

If you had a really big colony in a single national brood box at this time of year, would you double brood them or do a demaree? Or something else?

I suppose I could just super them and hope for the best. I’m not wanting to increase my hive numbers…although would consider splitting and reuniting as another option (if/when they produce swarm cells)

 

[emoclewbee]

Deleting my previous comment as I read yours wrong.
Thought it said you did want to make increase.
Both are valid options, I would Demaree however, as I find it more likely to reduce swarming.

Must be nice weather in Cumbria, can't see myself having to think about Demaree or spilts until we get a least a couple.weeks of nice weather.

 

[drex]

All depends . Do you actually need to do anything? How many frames of brood? Is there still space for queen to lay? I run double broods and rarely get signs of swarming.

 

[Antipodes]

If you had a really big colony in a single national brood box at this time of year, would you double brood them or do a demaree? Or something else?

I suppose I could just super them and hope for the best. I’m not wanting to increase my hive numbers…although would consider splitting and reuniting as another option (if/when they produce swarm cells)

Demaree.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you had a really big colony in a single national brood box at this time of year, would you double brood them or do a demaree? Or something else?

first move would be to super them (Demarees work better with a super or two between the two brood boxes anyway) then when the colony is on eight frames full of brood, then Demaree
It is also pretty pointless, or at least a PITA doing a Demaree when there isn't a flow on

 

[ericbeaumont]

could just super them and hope for the best

Not a good plan as it is lack of laying space that will trigger swarming.

not wanting to increase

Whatever you do, re-unite just before the main flow, to give a strong colony to produce honey and a spare nuc to overwinter. Putting on an extra brood box today will give quickest results and least work.

 

[user 819]

Really depends on how much brood and laying space , old bees will still be dying off so numbers are still changing.

With single brood I would simply go double and rearrange combs evenly up/down to form a vertical broodnest, the bees will then have some work to keep them busy. If one has spare drawn then use it as well.

If the Qu prooves to be a strong layer then save the Demaree in case it is needed come May , extra room now before any main spring flow will allow forages to off load quicker and increase the honey yield esp if the forage window is short or the weather turns wet and cold again.
Weekend for some southern /eastern counties is expected to top 20c on Saturday so colonies in these areas may be very busy with dry & mild for Sunday/ Monday.

 

[Do224]

Weather is set to be pretty iffy up in Cumbria so I’m going to wait until I’m home on Wednesday and deal with it then.

Looking at the forecast it might be too cold to inspect when I get back, at about 12 degrees? If so am I best (a) inspecting anyway. (b) waiting for a warmer day, or (c) skipping the inspection and sticking a second brood box on/under the existing one.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Weather is set to be pretty iffy up in Cumbria so I’m going to wait until I’m home on Wednesday and deal with it then.

Looking at the forecast it might be too cold to inspect when I get back, at about 12 degrees? If so am I best (a) inspecting anyway. (b) waiting for a warmer day, or (c) skipping the inspection and sticking a second brood box on/under the existing one.

12 degrees is fine to inspect if there is a legitimate need to - cracked open a few hives over the weekend and it was colder than that

 

[user 819]

12 degrees is fine to inspect if there is a legitimate need to - cracked open a few hives over the weekend and it was colder than that

This is where so many read the advice incorrectly, because it is mentioned they read it as can be done. The important bit that gets glossed over is the legit bit and the need to do so and not to do so for the need of it.

Down here today the breeze/wind had a fair chill on it today so no cracking open of colonies today. I have two more to look at either tomorrow or mor likely Saturday, another I want to double brood. .

 

[Swarm]

Yesterday it was ten degrees but the sun popped out from time to time so it felt a bit warmer. Still went through colonies, not a problem.

 

[Do224]

The temp looks set to be mid teens later today so I’m going to deal with this hive. I had a look at them this morning and they were already very busy foraging soon after 8am. They’ve built a fair bit of brace comb in the empty takeaway tub I was using to feed them earlier in the year.

I’m planning to double brood them today. I’m intending to split the brood nest and take half of it (the newest looking brood) up into the new bb, which I’ll place on top of the existing one. I’ve got four frames of drawn/part drawn comb so will put a frame either side of the nest in both the top and bottom box and then foundation to the side of these and any existing stores right on the outside. Sound ok?

My frames are warm way and from experience I’ve seen the brood nest is often not in the middle but over to one side. If this is the case I guess I shouldn’t make it central but rather leave it where it is and mimick it in the new bb above.

 

[Do224]

Just done this and am now wondering if I should feed them a bit to help them draw the new foundation. They’ve got perhaps 2 1/2 frames of stores which I left on the outer edge of the bottom box (rightly or wrongly).

There were 6 solid frames of brood which I split between the top and bottom box. Takeaway tub was full off comb and brood which I sadly had to discard.

Wasn’t as fast as I’d hoped so hope the brood didn’t get chilled. There’s a cool breeze but it’s 14 celcius

 

[Swarm]

Just done this and am now wondering if I should feed them a bit to help them draw the new foundation. They’ve got perhaps 2 1/2 frames of stores which I left on the outer edge of the bottom box (rightly or wrongly).

There were 6 solid frames of brood which I split between the top and bottom box. Takeaway tub was full off comb and brood which I sadly had to discard.

Wasn’t as fast as I’d hoped so hope the brood didn’t get chilled. There’s a cool breeze but it’s 14 celcius

Don't worry about chilled brood, that's what happens when bees neglect it for extended periods. Rummaging through the combs and rearranging their nest won't harm them, I bet your brood frames had a good covering of nurse bees too when you moved them

 

[philat98]

Not a good plan as it is lack of laying space that will trigger swarming.


Whatever you do, re-unite just before the main flow, to give a strong colony to produce honey and a spare nuc to overwinter. Putting on an extra brood box today will give quickest results and least work.

What is the best indicator for removing the demaree? I am cycling the frames between top and bottom but when do I stop?

 

[ericbeaumont]

What is the best indicator for removing the demaree? I am cycling the frames between top and bottom but when do I stop?

Not my department, Phil. JBM knows the ins and outs of Demaree, and will be along to advise.

My comment about uniting just before the main flow referred to a vertical split: take out a Q+nuc from one of the splits and unite the rest with newspaper.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What is the best indicator for removing the demaree? I am cycling the frames between top and bottom but when do I stop?

you can stop a Demaree whenever you feel like it, the original method didn't involve cycling the frames at all, but just let them fill the frames with honey. You know when to carry on doing it when they are filling frames with brood faster than you can move them up.
The only indicator I can give is to stop when you feel that swarming fever is over, usually when the flow peaks, when it starts slowing down, it's definitely time to stop.