Double Brood Discussion & Poll

[Haughton Honey]

Any chance that those who clicked on 'Yes - All Through The Year' can identify themselves and explain what they do, if you haven't done so already?

 

[Finman]

I've tried double brood and didn't like it.
I'm changing to larger boxes - it will give me the option to vary the size of a single box.

That makes only troubles in beekeeping and give no advantage.

 

[rourkie]

hi I clicked yes to all year round i use double broods for a lot of reasons the main ones are double brood mimmicks wild nests to some degree ie bees like to build up and down not out, double broods helps with swarm control quick split and tilt look for swarm cells, this stems from when i kept 250 hives in kent in my twenties,not a lot of time available for long inspections, double broods mean bees never short of space aids swarm control, making increase is easy a lot of the right frames available, although they have 22 frames available they only seem to use 18 for brood rearing the outside frames that can suffer from cold are not normaly used for rearing brood, hives can be fed in the spring to help build up for queen rearing or nuke production with out cutting down on brood rearing space , winter feeding large amounts of feed can be stored cuts down on risk of starvation, and changing the wax in brood frames is easier as you have more to choose from i believe that the wax in brood frames are not changed often enough . down side mainly the amount of kit reqiured, and wieght if moving hives, brood and a half in my opion has no advantages only disadvantages. regards jim

 

[MJBee]

Hi WPC,
I didn't want to make an increase so no floor, I read about this system and tried it with 100% success. It requires a bit of work initially because there must be no open brood in the top box. They are then far enough away from the queen to think they are queenless and readily accept cells to raise. Easy to make an increase though, just leave them with one of the cells they have raised and move to another site.
Mike

 

[darrenperrett]

How reliable is the split and tilt method for swarm control ? I`ve got one hive on double brood at the moment and have been trying to decide whether to go to 14x12.

Darren.

 

[Hivemaker.]

No method detection of the intention to swarm is guaranteed,as they could swarm on just one cell,not seen and which you would think of as supercedure.
But normally there are many cells in a colony intending to swarm,in a two box system many of these would be along the bottom of the frames of the top box,so when cells are seen,you need to go through all the frames,and do something about it.If say you have a great many hives on double box's,and not a lot of time,then with a quick tilt of the top box you can get a good indication of whats going on,yes you may lose the odd swarm,but with lots of hives you can soon boost these back up,if you only have one hive,then better to look right through them,as one swarm can be 100% loss. Clipped queens are an important part of swarm management also.

And don't forget this... its true...."Bees do nothing invariably."

 

[darrenperrett]

Thanks for that Pete,
I think I`ll try double brood next year and see how I get on with it.

Regards,
Darren.

 

[Finman]

.
To get two boxes full of brood needs a good young queen. If you give two brood boxes, often you will have brood only in one box.

I like strong 2 box wintering hives. They are easy to nurse. They start early yield catching. They have capacity to store huge masses of nectar when flow is heavy. Good yeild flow is short here and I want to catch it. It is 1-3 weeks. No more. But they will get 50-120 kg honey in that time.

Swarming is a problem with big hives. They swarm first. But when you see first queen cells, make a false swarm at once. That saves your yield.

Honey boxes are heavy to lift at the level of face. But I prefer to lift heavy boxes than light ones.

To find queen or queen cells is not a problem. It happens so seldom.
The queen is mostly in upper brood box and you need not see it every time.
If hive has young larvae and not queen cells, you know that queen is alive.

Most of all, 2 box hive is easy to over winter. Its spring build up is fast and it fogare early yield.

If you have not power in your arms I recommend another kind of queens, smaller hives and smaller boxes. Many here use medium boxes = super boxes as foor brood. It works as good as big boxes.

Small boxes and frames are more expencive but they do not brake your back.

.

 

[Finman]

.
Many use 2 box system so that they lift a brood box over the excluder and put the queen into new empty brood box. That's duty is to prevent swarming. In Australia they do this way. Our biggest beekeeper (3000 hives) does so.

Some put excluder after main yield when they want to get hove away from brood boxes.

.

 

[Somerford]

Clipped queens are an important part of swarm management also.

I read the other day that clipping queens is largely a waste of time unless you are near the hive pretty much every day to take action when they swarm.

thoughts ?

 

[Finman]

I read the other day that clipping queens is largely a waste of time unless you are near the hive pretty much every day to take action when they swarm.

thoughts ?

Hah hah. You may read what you want.

I live in capaital city 100 miles away from my hives and visit there only on weekend.


System is that you clip the queens ONE wing tip.

* when hive start to swarm, it raise first queen cells. First swarm leave when the first queen cells are capped. So it takes one week.

* swarm leaves and queen will be destroyed. Swarm return to the hve and wait that virgn queen emerghe and is able to frly. Now it have gone 2 weeks.


So, I must check hives every week, because two weeks interval is too late.
Queen clipping gives me time to do checking.

When you notice queen cells in the hive, a wise job is to make false swarm. It is 95% sure method. I do not even destroy queen cells.

I move the hive 10 feet then I put foundation hive on old site, including queen and brood frame. Old bees fly by themselves to the new hive and forget the swarming.

If the hive is full of honey, it swarm without warning.
Last summer I lost a sawrm, which has one week ago mated queen. The box was filled quickly with raspberry nectar and the queen left .

 

[Finman]

.
Why I use big hives?

I live 100 miles away my hives.

When the rape yield or fireweed yield is heavy, small hive will be full under one week. Then it swarms.

The hive needs a lot room to handle nectar. When you have one capped honey box, you need 3 others where bees put nectar to ripe.
When you take a capped box away, you need to put 2 empty box between honey and brood.

When flow is heavy, it is good to give a box with foundations. They build it in a week. It prevent swarming too.


Normal yield from rape field is 60 kg per hive. I must prepare my hives to that, even if I got only 20 kg. It is weather then which commands, what really happens.

 

[Finman]

.
What race is good for big hives.

I have had all races what we have normally used.
Carniolan and Italian are most popular.

I had carniolans 10 years. I never learner to handle their swarming. They were eager to swarm.

Italians swarm later than carniolans, and starting main yield mostly stop their swarming. I prefer them.

The amount of yield depends on flower fields nectar, not on bees,- normally.

Italian race have swarmy and non swarmy stocks. It is hard work to keep the yard non swarmy.

 

[darrenperrett]

Thanks for that Info Finman.
I`ve read a lot of stuff but it`s difficult to make a decision without any practical experience of different systems.

Regards,
Darren.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Somerford.
what have you read that happens if you don't clip the queens and you are not at the hives every day?

 

[Finman]

Thanks but it`s difficult to make a decision without any practical experience of different systems.

.

You just try it, so you get experience.

Years and hives are so different. It takes at least 3 years to convince yourself, what really have happened.

One hive may catch 40 kg honey and another 120 kg.
Hives may stay in different pastures and difference is 3-fold, or even 5-fold.

If you have 4 hives, it is difficult to know, what is the reason.

You know your bee stock only if you get new queens and look what they are. But each is individual.

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