Double brood boxes

[BeeNice]

I have put two of my hives onto double brood, when I put on the second brood box I put it under the main brood box rather than on top as I didn't want to split the old brood box from the super above it which has brood in it, QX in place. The reason for double brood is to give room and slow down any swarming that may happen.
Question: I know that bees build up, but will they build happily down into the new brood box?
I may change the boxes over on Monday so the old brood box is on the floor and the new brood box above. But if I find that the bees are drawing out the foundation I will leave it as it is.
Regards
Steven

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have put two of my hives onto double brood, when I put on the second brood box I put it under the main brood box rather than on top as I didn't want to split the old brood box from the super above it which has brood in it, QX in place. The reason for double brood is to give room and slow down any swarming that may happen.
Question: I know that bees build up, but will they build happily down into the new brood box?
I may change the boxes over on Monday so the old brood box is on the floor and the new brood box above. But if I find that the bees are drawing out the foundation I will leave it as it is.
Regards
Steven

I PREFER TO DEMARRE them in your situation as the Q in foundation box and returning foragers are less likley to swam than leaving the all together


in ademarree you would arrange them as sfollows

roof
crown
old brood minus Q
QX
super
super de brooding
QX
foundation box plus queen
floor

check the top box for QC as they will make them for 6 days

if they continue to make QC in lower box, swap brood frames form ther foundation box to rpalce with hatched frames from top, again remove QC from top june and 21 days after last frame moved up, if you can create a second top entrace for drone then so much the better, you cut an entrance in the side of the qx or a eke with drone hole above it


roof
snew superssr++++
supes
QX
Brood new
brood old
floor

 

[enrico]

They will build down with no trouble. The queen will lay in lower brood as soon as top brood is full. Drawn comb would help though

 

[Chris B]

According to ROB Manley, a box of foundation under the brood nest will act as a deterrent to swarming, if you have QX and drawn supers above the main brood box. He also warns the foundation is likely to be chewed.
I've never tried this but I might experiment this year if time.

 

[Midland Beek]

Ordinarily the advice would be to put the additional brood box above the existing one, and then the super on top of that. But as you say, the super has brood in it.

Yup. See if the bees take to the new brood box. I think the intention would be to swap the boxes over at some point, perhaps when the bees have taken possession of the new box.

However, if the bees do not touch the new box then you got two choices: You could put it inbetween the BB and super, or you could put it on top of the super and then re-arrange the boxes when the bees have taken possession of it.

 

[Gardenbees]

According to ROB Manley, a box of foundation under the brood nest will act as a deterrent to swarming, if you have QX and drawn supers above the main brood box. He also warns the foundation is likely to be chewed.
I've never tried this but I might experiment this year if time.

... which is what I've just done with a brimming brood and a half hive, placing a 14x12 box underneath with foundation and a couple of drawn frames (which aren't the right size but I'm not bothered - I can always use them to trap drone brood if necessary). I've never done anything like that at this time of year before, but I think exceptional measures are needed: I've never seen quite such a vigorous colony at the beginning of April, and one of my others has already started on swarm cells. It's rather a risk given that we could still have a patch of really cold weather, but I decided to go for it.

One tip: don't do what I did (= Darwin award candidate) and casually try to move a hefty bb& super arrangement without strong trousers on! Even if your bees are normally absolute sweeties. I tried to be as quick and careful as possible, but my usually calm bees hated having their whole nest lifted up off its floor, and some flew out from under the box en route, clinging to my gloves and stinging the top of my legs (which were of course right next to their box, and had thick, DARK-coloured jeans on... I know, I know). They can do a surprising amount of damage in the second or so it takes to place them over the new box! Not that I would expect anyone else to be quite as daft as me, but if you don't get much aggression from your bees normally, it's easy to forget that we all draw the line somewhere, and they will defend their home if you do anything drastic to it.

 

[oliver90owner]

In three weeks time the top box brood problem will have gone away, the weather should be more settled, so the empty brood above the brood nest will not be so much of a problem to them (may well be part drawn by then, anyway.

Reards, RAB.

 

[BeeNice]

One tip: don't do what I did (= Darwin award candidate) and casually try to move a hefty bb& super arrangement without strong trousers on!

Thank you everyone for your comments, the plan is to look again (weather premitting) and see whats what. If drawn comb in the foundation brood box, all well and good, if not I may reverse the brood boxes.
Hi gardenbee, I did put the new brood box underneath by lifting the old brood box and super together, no problem with the bee's one lots really gentle the other lot are a just a bit defensive, will be requeening that colony from a gentle strain I am splitting as soon as they start to make QC's.
One more thing, replacing an old queen would you
1. cull the old queen and put in a selected QC?
2. make up nuc using a QC and bees and brood, then culling the old queen and uniting the two once the new queen is mated and laying?
Your thoughts.
regards
Steven

 

[oliver90owner]

One more thing, replacing an old queen would you

Is this now, at this moment in time, early April, in the UK?

If so, number 2, every time. Stands to reason. Everything going for number 2 and number 1 is the easy way to lose a lot, if only a month's worth of brood - let alone the risky mating in early May.

In fact, come to think about it, always number two unless a laying queen is available as a further alternative.

Another alternative is to put the old queen in a nuc with enough bees to keep her going, and put the queen cell in the main hive. That would be my choice. No need to unite the queen to the colony when/if she is satisfactory. Needs a week to make the colony hopelessly queenless if adding a frame of eggs and young brood, but safe enough adding a queen cell, I suppose.

Regards, RAB

 

[BeeNice]

Another alternative is to put the old queen in a nuc with enough bees to keep her going, and put the queen cell in the main hive. That would be my choice. No need to unite the queen to the colony when/if she is satisfactory. Needs a week to make the colony hopelessly queenless if adding a frame of eggs and young brood, but safe enough adding a queen cell, I suppose.

Hi Rab
This is a question for the near future when the bees are producing QC. I want to replace a queen thats a bit fiesty, but laying well. I would like to replace her, after 6 to 8 weeks once replaced the nasty ones would have been replaced.
Good hive (B), Nasty hive (A)
Got a bit lost with your answer are you saying to put in a QC to replace the old queen (A), I think I confused you with the question. I won't be splitting the hive (B) but producing QC's from this hive (B) as they a good gentle bees. But will need to put the queen (B) in a nuc box and leave a QC's in that hive (B).
Question: Shall I put a QC from (B) into hive (A) after culling the old queen?
Hope this makes sense.
regards
Steven

 

[oliver90owner]

I did not consider anything you might want to do with any other hive, just the one you wished to requeen. You made no mention of where you were obtaining your queen cell.

So simply, I would:
a) Remove nasty queen to nuc (with mainly house-bees)
b) Introduce the queen cell to the Q- hive.

Job done with hive colony if the resultant queen proves satisfactory. No uniting, new bees available from the old queen (as long as enough bees were left with her to carry on laying at a good rate).

What you do with your nasty queen in the nuc (or possibly too big for a nuc by the time the new queen has been proven satisfactory - easily a couple of months) is then up to you.

The behaviour of the workers is mostly determined by the queen pheromones, so workers from feisty stocks are quickly moderated in behaviour, if a docile queen is introduced. In other words, requeening can change the behaviour of a colony overnight!

It may not happen so quickly with the Q- colony, until the new queen hatches and takes over sovereignty.

Your choice of method might be coloured by the flow at the time - no brood with a strong queenright colony will store honey rapidly in a good flow (no brood to feed). The foraging 'gap' will be further down the line in about 6 weeks time, when the new queen is laying strongly and the old bees from the previous queen are expiring, so most of the nectar collected then will be for servicing the new brood. Roundabouts and swings mostly, overall, but in the short term your decision can change your crop yield pattern and possibly avoid a swarm risk when the flow suddenly ceases (old queen still in hive when OSR finishes).

RAB

 

[BeeNice]

Great advice, I know how to proceed now when the time is right.
Ta

 

[louiseww]

I have put two of my hives onto double brood, when I put on the second brood box I put it under the main brood box rather than on top as I didn't want to split the old brood box from the super above it which has brood in it, QX in place. The reason for double brood is to give room and slow down any swarming that may happen.
Question: I know that bees build up, but will they build happily down into the new brood box?
I may change the boxes over on Monday so the old brood box is on the floor and the new brood box above. But if I find that the bees are drawing out the foundation I will leave it as it is.
Regards
Steven

I have always been lead to believe that in the wild bees built from the top down and I have done the same on my double brood.
Louise