Double brood box full and loads of capped brood- Swarm potential

[Flatters]

We have a large hive which is made up of:-
2 national brood boxes
QX
Then 4 supers of which 3 are 75% full and one is 20%


On inspecting tonight there are a vast amount of bees in all parts of the hive and the brood boxes which have 9 frames each are probably 60-70% brood of which 70% of that is capped brood. There is probably around 3% drone brood. There are around 15 play cups and 3 or 4 have a white fluid in them. They are not fully developed queen cells. There is one larger play cup under a hole in the foundation and it is that one I can’t see in but it is probably the sort that catches one out.

With the number of bees in the hive and the amount of brood due to hatch I have a feeling that they may get, if they are not already, overcrowded and swarm.

I would like to manage this properly but I don’t want to do an AS hastily but I don’t want to lose a swarm and such a prolific queen. Doing an AS at this time of year leaves a virgin queen who needs to mate. We are in a heavy HB area and last year forage went on right to the end of October and we also get a lot of ivy.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[eric]

Add more supers

 

[Andre cardona]

brake all cups and scels, will help and keep a eye out, dont miss an inspextion
good luck

 

[Stiffy]

There are around 15 play cups and 3 or 4 have a white fluid in them. They are not fully developed queen cells. .

Sounds to me that they will soon be 'developed' !
S

 

[richardbees]

Two National brood boxes - that's a bit ambitious isn't it?

In my opinion you should go through all the brood frames and destroy any Q cells you find.

Then try and consolidate down to one brood box for overwintering.

 

[Flatters]

I have just spotted this thread which has helped a lot. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12773

I think I will add another cople of supers and knock back all the cells and see how things develop over the next few weeks. Last year I went on holiday and came back around mid August and they had produced a beatiful queen cell and they swarmed a few hour later before we could do anything. Luckliy we go them.

I really don't want another colony at this time of year. We went into April with one colony and now we have six (three are collected swarms) and I think that is enough for one year.

 

[Flatters]

Richardbees
They have been on double brood since last year and went through the winter on double brood. I think that if they were in a single brood box they would have swarmed long ago. It is not the same queen as winter as we did an AS in late April.

 

[richardbees]

Flatters,

OK! = just that I'm full of admiration that you can 'place' two boxes on top of each other.

(and might be jealous because I'm getting old)

richard

 

[kevboab]

Flatters
Im in the same boat as you. Got a hive bursting at the seams, wall to wall brood and no sign of queen easing off just yet. Have already ran out of brood boxes so have given her majesty a super to play with and another super for girls to play with. Hoping this is going to be enough to kill off any thoughts of bailing out on me. Thought all my swarm control was finished but hey ho the bees never cease to surprise me. Wish the thornes sale would hurry up.

 

[Flatters]

I think for these bees I have a single national is too small. I will have all mine on double brood as soon as I think they need it and will phase into 14x12 as I do frame replacement.

It is not too bad lifting one brood box onto another. It is problem when you put a 4th super on it becomes a tower block.

Two empty supers going ontoday and two full ones coming off. All incipient cups will be knocked back later in the week.

I have set up a bait hive nearby just in case. I had to borrow this. This year's expansion is double what I expected, but I am not complaining. What a great year.

 

[Flatters]

But of course the beekeeping year really only starts now as they need to get through winter, then count them...

 

[Stiffy]

I think for these bees I have a single national is too small. I will have all mine on double brood as soon as I think they need it and will phase into 14x12 as I do frame replacement.

It is not too bad lifting one brood box onto another. It is problem when you put a 4th super on it becomes a tower block.

Two empty supers going ontoday and two full ones coming off. All incipient cups will be knocked back later in the week.

I have set up a bait hive nearby just in case. I had to borrow this. This year's expansion is double what I expected, but I am not complaining. What a great year.

From the info provided (primed Q cells) I think the bees have decided that they are going and I would do an AS and combine later? Not sure what putting two empty supers on is going to acheive, unless you are leaving out q/e to allow more brood space?
Cheers
S

 

[wondervet]

how about demarree-ing them? would that be a reasonable plan? it would be quite a high tower I 'spose.

 

[Flatters]

Thanks for all the comments.

On reflection I think I will AS it. The weather is good so I will chance it and see how it goes with the option of combining later. A demaree is not an easy operation and is time consuming so I don’t fancy doing it.

 

[Poly Hive]

You need to AS. Cells with jely are an intent to swarm.

Yes it is late but nuc the queen and leave the tower one open cell to work with and or make another nuc with an open cell.

For those who advise breaking down the cells sorry but it is bad advice. If you constantly destroy cells the bees will swarm on an open cup. Oh yes they will...

Where this rubbish comes from, to knock down cells I have no idea but it is just that, rubbish advice.

As for running a double brood box if the queen needs it use it. I have quite a few on doubles.

PH

 

[greatbritishhoney]

From the info provided (primed Q cells) I would do an AS and combine laterS

This would also potentially give you a spare queen should they decide to swarm anyway.

 

[richardbees]

PH

"I have quite a few on doubles."

I wasn't saying anything against this, more a case of being envious! - just that some of us find it hard to handle the weight.

richard

 

[Hivemaker.]

A demaree is not an easy operation and is time consuming so I don’t fancy doing it.

Takes about five minutes,with just one check nine or ten days later in top box,and thats it apart from the normal checks in the bottom.

 

[Flatters]

It would be an easier operation if we could find the queen. My two sons and I have been through both brood boxes four times now and not found the queen to even atempt an AS never mind a Demaree.

It is very unlikely she has already gone as my wife and childrena are at home and they have not seen it happen and the hive is close to the house.

Another option is to brush all the bees off and into an empty box, but I am reluctent to do this due to the location of the hive to neighbours ( I am looking for a better out apiary as thie current location is not great)

 

[oliver90owner]

A fresh box under, add a couple or three frames and shake all the bees into that new bottom box. Q/E over, put other boxes back and go away, come back the following day. Not far to look for the queen. Just did it for the queen in a double 14 x 12 brood where I missed the queen going through all 24 frames!

RAB