"domesticating" feral bees

[BeeJayBee]

Being a beginner I would ask your SBI to check it out first for disease, he might also know who it belongs to...

Good idea, but I think the SBIs have finished for the season. The RBI can check the location to find out if it's been registered. If so, they can trace the owner.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Good idea, but I think the SBIs have finished for the season. The RBI can check the location to find out if it's been registered. If so, they can trace the owner.

agree with SBI & RBI comments but have no faith that their records are correct as I get calls from them trying to locate beekeepers

 

[mbc]

In a shook swarm burning live brood and emerging bees is a bit brutal and in my opinion shows lack of empathy. Far better to put in bin bag and pop into the freezer for 24 hrs to kill the contents before burning.
.

Could always shook em and pop the brood back on top over another qx to hatch out and knock the mites back if necessary with thymol.

 

[thorn]

(I believe that a swarm only belongs to a bee keeper whilst he maintains them in sight but that could be urban legend)..

Kearry v Pattinson [1938] The Court of Appeal held that the bees belonged to the original owner as long as they were in his sight and he had power to pursue them. Power of pursuit ended when they left his land and flew onto the land of another, so could only be taken by a trespass, unless the landowner consented. He didn't. The bees then ceased to be chattels and reverted to ferae naturae.
A swarm that has so reverted becomes the property of the person who takes and rehives them.

The bees in this thread are not a swarm, but hived. Therefore they belong to the hive owner. Speak first to the landowner, who may well have given permission for the hive to be placed there.

 

[pargyle]

Kearry v Pattinson [1938] The Court of Appeal held that the bees belonged to the original owner as long as they were in his sight and he had power to pursue them. Power of pursuit ended when they left his land and flew onto the land of another, so could only be taken by a trespass, unless the landowner consented. He didn't. The bees then ceased to be chattels and reverted to ferae naturae.
A swarm that has so reverted becomes the property of the person who takes and rehives them.

The bees in this thread are not a swarm, but hived. Therefore they belong to the hive owner. Speak first to the landowner, who may well have given permission for the hive to be placed there.

##

This brings back some memories ... one of the first threads I followed on this forum ... started before I even became a member and dragged on for over 2 years ... I wonder whatever happened to Eric and Joseph ?? Lots of current members contributed ...

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5458

PS:
Just checked their stats ... still around lurking but not posting ....

 

[majika]

I agree with the disease comments. I extracted (via chainsaw method) an established colony out of a fallen tree two months ago and framed up the existing comb. Colony very healthy and not one varroa mite on the board.

 

[sussexbaker]

I agree with the disease comments. I extracted (via chainsaw method) an established colony out of a fallen tree two months ago and framed up the existing comb. Colony very healthy and not one varroa mite on the board.

I guess that the problem is that this generation has resistance, but once they start mating with managed bees then you're into the gene pool lottery. It's why I'm not trying treatment free, as without II it seems a pointless task where I live.

 

[Apple]

Kearry v Pattinson [1938] The Court of Appeal held that the bees belonged to the original owner as long as they were in his sight and he had power to pursue them. Power of pursuit ended when they left his land and flew onto the land of another, so could only be taken by a trespass, unless the landowner consented. He didn't. The bees then ceased to be chattels and reverted to ferae naturae.
A swarm that has so reverted becomes the property of the person who takes and rehives them.

The bees in this thread are not a swarm, but hived. Therefore they belong to the hive owner. Speak first to the landowner, who may well have given permission for the hive to be placed there.

Our RBI said at an association meeting that bees were now classified as food producing stock and no longer were regarded as ferae naturae

This being I believe to allow the government via its agencies to force upon the general beekeeper a host of regulations as to medication of the bees?

Also would this change of status alter the law?
I put this to my brother in law who is a Barrister and he said " it would depend upon the judge to make a common sense judgement", or would have to go to the High Court for a decision, if an appeal was made.

Recomendation is to let alone until some in depth research has been undertaken as to land owners/ hive owner etc
I am sure all will come good in the end.

Beekeepers can not agree on anything it seems!

We found an almost new inflatable dinghy washed onto the beach yesterday, fortunately the laws on finding wreck are quite clear, but we have to keep it safe until the receiver of wreck has dealt with it!
So simple to put a phone number or postcode or even name and address on a rubber boat, but not even a serial number on this one.
Bet the owner has not even missed it!

Perhaps beekeepers should also mark their property?


By no other name !

James

 

[itma]

Our RBI said at an association meeting that bees were now classified as food producing stock and no longer were regarded as ferae naturae

I suspect you misunderstood.
Bees were never ferae naturae when in a managed hive.

I put this to my brother in law who is a Barrister and he said " it would depend upon the judge to make a common sense judgement", or would have to go to the High Court for a decision, if an appeal was made.

How strange that he would give such a clear opinion without payment!

 

[oliver90owner]

One abiding thought occurred to me. Anyone know of anyone, anywhere, anytime getting convicted of stealing bees?

Stealing the hardware is a different story, but even then definitive identification must be available. Plod does not really want to know about stolen bees. Not important enough. Let's face it, you are lucky to get more than a crime number even if your house is burgled!

The above is an observation and I would love to hear of any conviction for specifically stealing bees. Nor is it a suggestion that anyone should follow that route. Thieves are scum in my book. One cannot really go wrong if one operates 'above board'. If the real owner eventually turns up, he or she should easily be able to contact you. I would think one could make a charge for any costs of saving them if they were reclaimed. The previous owner may otherwise be accountable to the RSPB?!?

 

[alanf]

...We found an almost new inflatable dinghy washed onto the beach yesterday, fortunately the laws on finding wreck are quite clear, but we have to keep it safe until the receiver of wreck has dealt with it!
So simple to put a phone number or postcode or even name and address on a rubber boat, but not even a serial number on this one.
Bet the owner has not even missed it!

Perhaps beekeepers should also mark their property?...

They should. It's pretty convincing in case of theft if your phone number is written in permanent marker inside the boxes. Makes a stolen hive harder to sell on for one thing. Just a thought if the landowner has lost contact with the hive owner, you could try leaving a note under the lid to contact you. No response after a time and the note still there would be at least some defence that you tried to contact the owner.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How strange that he would give such a clear opinion without payment!

but even stranger that he should expect:

the judge to make a common sense judgement",

 

[user 6228]

Our RBI said at an association meeting that bees were now classified as food producing stock and no longer were regarded as ferae naturae

This being I believe to allow the government via its agencies to force upon the general beekeeper a host of regulations as to medication of the bees?

Also would this change of status alter the law?
I put this to my brother in law who is a Barrister and he said " it would depend upon the judge to make a common sense judgement", or would have to go to the High Court for a decision, if an appeal was made.

...

James

I think it will also depends on the purpose for which they are kept see
The Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Regulations 2007. which is what I beleive the RBI is referring to.
Under these regulations Honeybees kept on a research station are not covered as farmed animals if their Honey is not collected for consumption.

Curiously farmed salmon arent farmed animals! but neither is the law

 

[thenovice]

I see my OP has made for some good discussion.

My lesson learned is:

1. Do not touch before I get to know the person who abandoned those hives there and get permission.
2. there are many ways to skin a cat but overall, my hypothetical approach was not to far of the mark

thanks for all replies!

 

[bontbee]

agree with SBI & RBI comments but have no faith that their records are correct as I get calls from them trying to locate beekeepers

as an aside, I think that might be because there are a lot of beekeepers under the radar, but who may be known of by local beeks. It's not necessarily incompetence or poor records!

Those beeks are also the ones who, when disease strikes, don't contact anyone to let them know there's disease in the area as they want to stay under the radar...and even if they deal with their own problems, they probably don't give a stuff about your bees "next door"...

 

[thorn]

or would have to go to the High Court for a decision, if an appeal was made.

It was. This was a Court of Appeal decision. One of the Judges who heard the case was Lord Goddard, later Lord Chief Justice and the Judge who sentenced Derek Bentley to death. A brilliant lawyer, but a bully and a sexual pervert.
And the claim was for £4. It goes without saying that the parties (and their lawyers) were Yorkshiremen.

 

[thorn]

I see my OP has made for some good discussion.

My lesson learned is:

1. Do not touch before I get to know the person who abandoned those hives there and get permission.
2. there are many ways to skin a cat but overall, my hypothetical approach was not to far of the mark

thanks for all replies!

If you can't find the owner, treat them as lost property. Take them to your local police station.

 

[user 6228]

If you can't find the owner, treat them as lost property. Take them to your local police station.

Depending on the the police force, they may attempt to shoot them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4088497.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...armed-police-during-seven-hour-stand-off.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/506704/Bull-Shot-Target-Practice-Police-Farmer
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/28/police-shoot-aggressive-cow_n_2973909.html
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8389688.Police_deny_shooting_stray_horse_19_times/
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/crime/police-shoot-dead-runaway-cow-1-5824434

 

[thorn]

Depending on the the police force, they may attempt to shoot them.


No, they'd use tasers.

 

[mbc]

Depending on the the police force, they may attempt to shoot them.

Lol.