Do we leave stores?

[jonnybeegood]

I was thinking, having hives with plenty of stores but still feeding a block of fondant, come spring when bees start bringing in stores of their own, do people leave any stores that are left in there, i.e. in the frames? I know it might sound daft but I was thinking, because l left a super on each of my hives (above the BB) & if these stores weren't touched am I better taking these off or leaving them?
The reason I ask this is because as i fed fondant, could they store this & then move it into the supers, thus diluting future stores in the supers in spring?
I thought the idea was to let them use up their stores & when almost gone, give them fondant as emergency feed so in effect, there would be no stores as such left. But I am seeing people here feeding fondant even though they have stores which could result in them having lots of food left possibly?

 

[Erichalfbee]

The important thing is that the queen has space to lay in the Spring. I have had to take out brood frames full of stores. If you left a full super on they shouldn't need fondant. Are you checking the stores situation?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought the idea was to let them use up their stores & when almost gone, give them fondant as emergency feed so in effect, there would be no stores as such left. But I am seeing people here feeding fondant even though they have stores which could result in them having lots of food left possibly?

Exactly - that's the point of hefting and only putting fondant on when the hive feels a bit light. Not sooo crucial if you don't put the fondant on until well into winter - as they tend then to leave it on and only take it if needed. But if you slap the fondant on in the autumn - they will take it down and store it in the comb meaning that if there is a lot left in the spring it will get mixed up in the harvest - you can of course, once there is a steady supply of forage in the spring, take off any leftover sealed winter stores either for use in building up nucs or for putting back in the autumn

 

[Bosleeu]

The important thing is that the queen has space to lay in the Spring. I have had to take out brood frames full of stores. If you left a full super on they shouldn't need fondant. Are you checking the stores situation?

I agree, and I find it difficult to judge just right. If in doubt I feed to be safe although that has meant that I have had to remove frames full of stores a few times. Mostly they were full of hard-set Ivy honey. The bees are either very reluctant or unable to eat that, as the frames full of syrup stores are normally used in preference.

 

[wessexmario]

I was thinking, having hives with plenty of stores but still feeding a block of fondant,

the question should be "why feed fondant in the first place, if they had plenty of stores?"
or
"If fondant is the solution, what was the problem?"

 

[jonnybeegood]

Exactly - that's the point of hefting and only putting fondant on when the hive feels a bit light. Not sooo crucial if you don't put the fondant on until well into winter - as they tend then to leave it on and only take it if needed. But if you slap the fondant on in the autumn - they will take it down and store it in the comb meaning that if there is a lot left in the spring it will get mixed up in the harvest - you can of course, once there is a steady supply of forage in the spring, take off any leftover sealed winter stores either for use in building up nucs or for putting back in the autumn

Thanks, thats a great idea to use the frames for building up nucs, i could have done with some for the 3 nucs i have to get them ready for this winter, but they are doing ok.
I did put fondant on my hives even though they had stores just so i wouldnt need to disturb them again, i thought better too much than not enough, then i started wondering if i did the right thing.
I will have nucs going into hives so i can use some frames to give them a good start in spring & put foundation in a couple of frames to give the bees space where i take them from.

 

[jonnybeegood]

the question should be "why feed fondant in the first place, if they had plenty of stores?"
or
"If fondant is the solution, what was the problem?"

I think if i thought about it myself i probably wouldnt have, but reading about bees starving easily. & everyone feeding fondant just in case made me err on the side of caution. Its my first winter so i have learnt for next year. At least they shouldnt starve

 

[pargyle]

I was thinking, having hives with plenty of stores but still feeding a block of fondant, come spring when bees start bringing in stores of their own, do people leave any stores that are left in there, i.e. in the frames? I know it might sound daft but I was thinking, because l left a super on each of my hives (above the BB) & if these stores weren't touched am I better taking these off or leaving them?
The reason I ask this is because as i fed fondant, could they store this & then move it into the supers, thus diluting future stores in the supers in spring?
I thought the idea was to let them use up their stores & when almost gone, give them fondant as emergency feed so in effect, there would be no stores as such left. But I am seeing people here feeding fondant even though they have stores which could result in them having lots of food left possibly?

"How long does ivy honey take before it tends to set in the comb? I ask because when i treat my hives with oxalic last week, one of the hives had so much stores i thought i would swipe a frame out of the super. The hive was too heavy to lift so i thought i could risk one frame as i never took any off this year off any hives. I know it is ivy honey but it hasnt set at all, does it take months or weeks, or does it sometimes not set. I love the strong taste & you can smell ivy as you breathe after a spoonfull, an acquired taste maybe, but i love it. johnnybeegood "

Bees store honey to see them through a normal winter ... You appear to have left them everything they put aside and so you really should not need to feed them unless we get a very bad spell of weather when Spring should have sprung and the bees either can't forage or there's nothing much about for them to forage on.

Most competent beekeepers on here will ensure that their bees have enough stores going in to winter to see them through (and feed them syrup in the autumn to build up stores if they haven't). Fondant should be viewed as an emergency feed if you or the bees get it wrong .... there are some beekeepers who put a slab of fondant in the hive over winter 'just in case' but IMO this is not good beekeeping. Get to know what your bees use in the way of their winter stores (and different strains do vary in what they consume and different hives and hive conditions can also have an impact) and next winter you will be more confident about what to leave them and when or if they are running short.

RAB would tell you to think about it and ensure your bees are prepared properly for winter - then you won't have to worry about feeding fondant - but I don't think he will be along in a hurry !!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Most competent beekeepers on here will ensure that their bees have enough stores going in to winter to see them through (and feed them syrup in the autumn to build up stores if they haven't).

Or just fondant.

 

[Little John]

Fondant should be viewed as an emergency feed if you or the bees get it wrong ....

That's a rather dogmatic statement, as there are a growing number of beekeepers who are moving over to feeding fondant instead of syrup during the normal course of events.

It looks as if I will be joining them, but for now I've restricted my use of fondant to installing small inverted jars of fondant as 'indicators' of how stores are holding out during the next month or so. These went on during the first week in January.
This promises to be a much simpler - and real-time indicator of stores - than the hefting of boxes with the built-in assumptions that such a method entails.

I tried this technique on just the one hive last winter, and it worked rather well.

LJ

 

[jonnybeegood]

"How long does ivy honey take before it tends to set in the comb? I ask because when i treat my hives with oxalic last week, one of the hives had so much stores i thought i would swipe a frame out of the super. The hive was too heavy to lift so i thought i could risk one frame as i never took any off this year off any hives. I know it is ivy honey but it hasnt set at all, does it take months or weeks, or does it sometimes not set. I love the strong taste & you can smell ivy as you breathe after a spoonfull, an acquired taste maybe, but i love it. johnnybeegood "

Bees store honey to see them through a normal winter ... You appear to have left them everything they put aside and so you really should not need to feed them unless we get a very bad spell of weather when Spring should have sprung and the bees either can't forage or there's nothing much about for them to forage on.

Most competent beekeepers on here will ensure that their bees have enough stores going in to winter to see them through (and feed them syrup in the autumn to build up stores if they haven't). Fondant should be viewed as an emergency feed if you or the bees get it wrong .... there are some beekeepers who put a slab of fondant in the hive over winter 'just in case' but IMO this is not good beekeeping. Get to know what your bees use in the way of their winter stores (and different strains do vary in what they consume and different hives and hive conditions can also have an impact) and next winter you will be more confident about what to leave them and when or if they are running short.

RAB would tell you to think about it and ensure your bees are prepared properly for winter - then you won't have to worry about feeding fondant - but I don't think he will be along in a hurry !!

Yes i basically cocked up i know that now, but at least i cocked up the right way & wont be starving my bees. I knew there were plenty stores but with it being a mild winter & bees flying almost every day i thoughf best not risk it, also i am away for a couple of weeks soon & didnt want to leave it before i go to check stores when the weather may be really bad. I am happy they shouldnt starve this winter. & as Jbm says, i can use spare frames which will help other bees get a good start so thats a plus.

 

[Bosleeu]

Yes i basically cocked up i know that now, but at least i cocked up the right way & wont be starving my bees. I knew there were plenty stores but with it being a mild winter & bees flying almost every day i thoughf best not risk it, also i am away for a couple of weeks soon & didnt want to leave it before i go to check stores when the weather may be really bad. I am happy they shouldnt starve this winter. & as Jbm says, i can use spare frames which will help other bees get a good start so thats a plus.

Yeah, if you are confident they have enough stores of course don't feed. If in doubt, rather feed. I have learnt that the hard way, it's definitely better to have a few frames of extra stores than have starving bees.

 

[pargyle]

That's a rather dogmatic statement, as there are a growing number of beekeepers who are moving over to feeding fondant instead of syrup during the normal course of events.

It looks as if I will be joining them, but for now I've restricted my use of fondant to installing small inverted jars of fondant as 'indicators' of how stores are holding out during the next month or so. These went on during the first week in January.
This promises to be a much simpler - and real-time indicator of stores - than the hefting of boxes with the built-in assumptions that such a method entails.

I tried this technique on just the one hive last winter, and it worked rather well.

LJ

Me ... Dogmatic ? ... No ... Just my opinion. I'm in the 'if it works for you then that's fine'. I weigh my hives so I have a pretty good idea of what's in there in the way of stores. I too found hefting a very hit and miss method although I accept that experience and time will allow me to become more adept. I also accept that weighing hives is not something for those with lots of hives but for a Beginners Section post probably a way forward.

Sounds like you have a system that's working for you.

 

[user 6228]

I was thinking, having hives with plenty of stores but still feeding a block of fondant, come spring when bees start bringing in stores of their own, do people leave any stores that are left in there, i.e. in the frames? I know it might sound daft but I was thinking, because l left a super on each of my hives (above the BB) & if these stores weren't touched am I better taking these off or leaving them?
The reason I ask this is because as i fed fondant, could they store this & then move it into the supers, thus diluting future stores in the supers in spring?
I thought the idea was to let them use up their stores & when almost gone, give them fondant as emergency feed so in effect, there would be no stores as such left. But I am seeing people here feeding fondant even though they have stores which could result in them having lots of food left possibly?

think about it
the last of the honey is going to be ivy to which they add tate & lyle... do you really think that is going to be extractable to dilute real honey in spring?

 

[jonnybeegood]

think about it
the last of the honey is going to be ivy to which they add tate & lyle... do you really think that is going to be extractable to dilute real honey in spring?

I dont know thats why i asked, surely if the bees can feed on it then they are also able to take it jnto their stomachs & move it? Thats what i was meaning, are you meaning me extracting it? If so, thats not what i meant.

 

[Ely]

I think if i thought about it myself i probably wouldnt have, but reading about bees starving easily. & everyone feeding fondant just in case made me err on the side of caution. Its my first winter so i have learnt for next year. At least they shouldnt starve

I tend to ignore any blanket warnings and scare posts. Beekeeping is very specific to your area and even to your hives. As long as you are being vigilant in your preps and checks you should be OK. Obviously that takes experience and practise so try to concentrate on that. It is good to take specific advice designed for your hives but bad to blindly follow what others are doing.

 

[bingevader]

The advice from our association was to feed if necessary.
We didn't set out to feed having left at least a super of honey on each of the 3 hives.
However, when we hefted the hives just before Christmas, the hive that at the end of summer had the least bees and the greatest supplies was very light indeed.
Needless to say, we added some fondant.
It's been a rather unpredictable first year, but we've got this far.
It's a bit how we're finding all things in bee keeping, there are very few right or wrong answers and you have to go with what you see in front of you.
The bees certainly aren't much help!

 

[pargyle]

The

We didn't set out to feed having left at least a super of honey on each of the 3 hives.
However, when we hefted the hives just before Christmas, the hive that at the end of summer had the least bees and the greatest supplies was very light indeed.

Hmmm ... with a super of honey on top of a filled brood box you should have had more than enough stores to feed a small(ish) colony right the way through to spring ..

If your hive really is that light what I would be thinking is WHY ?

Two things come to mind - Robbing late in the season ? Bees or wasps ?

Mouse damage - have you got mouseguards in place ?

Much as it goes against the grain I would have risked having a look to see what has happened ... How did you feed the fondant ? In a container over the feed hole or straight on top of the frames ?

 

[jonnybeegood]

Hmmm ... with a super of honey on top of a filled brood box you should have had more than enough stores to feed a small(ish) colony right the way through to spring ..

If your hive really is that light what I would be thinking is WHY ?

Two things come to mind - Robbing late in the season ? Bees or wasps ?

Mouse damage - have you got mouseguards in place ?

Much as it goes against the grain I would have risked having a look to see what has happened ... How did you feed the fondant ? In a container over the feed
hole or straight on top of the frames ?

If a hive has less bees you would think they would need less food, but would
they also not burn more energy trying to keep the cluster/hive warm & so use more food?

 

[Finman]

If a hive has less bees you would think they would need less food, but would
they also not burn more energy trying to keep the cluster/hive warm & so use more food?

No
They consume relatively more energy, but not more stores.
.
There are natural variation between colonies, and you do not get good explanations, why it is so.

.