Do my bees need feeding?

[melias]

I have two National 14x12 hives and this is my first winter. Each was fed with 27 kilos of sugar in September.
Today I treated both hives with OA and was very surprised at was I saw inside the hives.

The first hive, which has always seemed the weaker of the two had lots of bees clustered, many of which were above the bars at the top of the frames.
I didn't place fondant on top of the frames because I would have crushed hundreds of bees. Stores seemed ample, however, looking down at the space between the frames.

The second hive, which has always been stronger, seemed almost empty of bees. Again, lots of stores, but no bees visible at all when looking down between the frames (though it was hard to see much).

I'm confused as to how to interpret this situation.
Would be grateful for advice!

 

[Finman]

.
Now you need a little bit harsh mind.

Another have much bees and there still long winter ahead.

Take the frames from the empty hive, put them into a box and the box over the bee cluster.
If there is too much bees, let them first retreat down by cold.

What has happened to your hive? Did they move to neighbouring hive.
It is possible if their queen is dead and they found a inviting odor coming from neigbour.

or varroa has killed the strong hive.

Don't mind if you find a fistfull of bees from the vanished hive. They have not future.

Last, insulate the upper box to save energy.

.

 

[Black Comb]

Did you shine a torch down between the seams?
It can look like there are no bees but when you can see down they are there.
Worth another look before any action.

 

[Rosti]

Did you shine a torch down between the seams?
It can look like there are no bees but when you can see down they are there.
Worth another look before any action.

With regard your fondant question I think it is a shot to nothing. With only two hives you can't afford to loose one. A slab of fondant on top of a QE or above a feeding hole with good insultaion around and above can do no harm IMO but could do a great deal of good. Worst case if not used is that it becomes spring stimulant syrup

 

[Finman]

When he takes frames, he surely see the cluster if it is there.

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And if it is then he puts them back?
Might as well have a look then...........
I would just put fondant on and see what spring brings.
Mind you.......you could just put an ear (or a stethoscope ) to the box and listen.

 

[kighill]

I have only just managed to treat mine very happy all still going.
Several hives appeared a little light on food so were fed a plastic takeaway dish full of fondant.

I would rather take it off later and have a living colony than leave as is and find a dead one in spring.

I have previously lost bees through starvation with food still at the opposite side of the hive.

Your bees may be at the bottom of the frames instead of the top. Try having a peak from below without causing to much disturbance. Prior to checking use a metal coat hanger or similar through the hive entrance and pull it along the floor towards the entrance.....loads of dead bees, not good/very few dead bees have a QUICK peek.

 

[oliver90owner]

If they were deeps I would be far more concerned. 14 x 12s can obscure the cluster from the inexperienced. The cluster may be still fairly low down, especially if you have a solid floor.

From the information given, I for one would not like to pronounce one way or the other. They may be different strains of bee; they may be in trouble; efficacy of varroa treatments, and lots of other factors can make a difference.

I disagree with Rosti in that you can afford to lose a single colony, even though not good news (and I do not like losing colonies at any time).

I am not surprised that you are confused - this being your first winter. I can only reiterate that I try to make sure of several factors and then leave them for the duration of the cold months and will only intercede if I feel they need help. There is little one can do other than feed as necessary if the hive hefts light.

a) Bee health (winter-bee brood pathogen-free, and unmolested as pupae, by varroa mites).

b) More than adequate stores.

c) Adequate insulation (so the bees need to consume the minimum of stores during the quiescent periods).

d) Adequate ventilation (in my case, OMFs - all been open all winter) to avoid condensation affecting the colony.

e) Peace and quiet - no interference from me (unless I consider it paramount) or the weather.

f) Protection from larger pests - mice, woodpeckers - as I consider appropriate.

Might be one or two others that do not come to mind at the present time of writing, but you get my drift, I hope. Good preparation is far better than remedial action later. I always remember the school saying re examination/revision: If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail. Appropriate in this context, too.

I only take strong colonies into winter (as full colonies) and nucs may get closer attention. I fear that many new beeks are unable to ensure that, mainly because they do not have the experience of really strong colonies with which to make sensible comparison (as well as being unable to remedy any shortfalls, anyway).

I agree with the rest of the comments, but where there is life, there is hope (for a fist full of bees - well maybe a few more). A queen got through the winter can be the basis of a revival (ask Rose Cottage about that one!). Especially important for those with just a few colonies. I would easily reinforce a weak colony in spring (or simply unite it with another), but you will find it a greater, by far, challenge.

RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Did you shine a torch down between the seams?
It can look like there are no bees but when you can see down they are there.
Worth another look before any action.

Helped another beek with OA treatment early in the year and his bees were deep down in a brood and a half - they were tightly clustered and it took some looking to confirm there was a viable colony there.

 

[Finman]

I
Your bees may be at the bottom of the frames instead of the top. .

it is January now. They cannot be on bottom forever, - unless dead. Food will be consumed all the time.

Stupid way to quess.

 

[adrian wilford]

i would have an eke deep enough to take the fondant, get some fondant, light smoke or brush the bees to one side place the fondant directly on top of the frames, replace crown board and roof strap down and leave., just keep an eye out for how much fondant the bees have eaten and replace with new fondant as the year goes on, feed light syrup at the end of feb,
all the best