Do *all* the flying/forager bees go with a swarming queen?

[The Riviera Kid]

Do *all* the flying/forager bees go with the queen when she leads a swarm?

I was always under the impression that all flying bees go with a prime swarm, leaving behind all the young bees who have not yet begun the forager phase of their life-cycle..

I got an answer phone message last night when I came home from a day out from a family friend who lives near my hives who saw a big swarm in the air at the bottom of their garden come down and land around 11.30. They wanted to alert me. The bees took off again and flew away around 14.45.

I wasn’t able to open the hive up to look last night to see if it were half-empty as it was too late (18.20) but I went to have a look externally and there seemed to be a remarkably large quantity of foraging bees in early evening coming and going for a colony that may have swarmed only a few hours before.

There should only have been a single queen cell in the hive and it was still sealed when I checked on Friday lunchtime.

Could it have been an unmated queen leading a large cast? Leaving behind another queen cell that I missed and a large quantity of flying bees too? I have been repeatedly thorough this year in scouring frames for queen cups and the original queen was removed at sight of the first unsealed queen cell and put in a nuc.

Frustratingly I’m at work today and can’t go round and check until this evening, but I’d appreciate if someone could help clarify if I’ve been labouring under a misapprehension all these years about the constitution of a swarm.

Cheers!

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is a mix of bees including drones. Half to a third of the bees go.
There will be plenty of foragers left in the swarmed hive.

 

[oliver90owner]

Only about ten percent of bees will be non-flyers. Does that help.

About half the bees in a colony will be foragers. Does that help.

Swarms need wax producers in the first instance. Does that help.

Particularly prime swarms will need nurse bees within a week, casts within a week or two hopefully.

Old colony will still need nurse bees in the case of a prime swarm and may need foragers dependent on food stocks.

Soo, as Erichalfbee, a mixture of all except non-flyers, but not necssarily in the same proportions as they were prior to swarming.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is a mix of bees including drones. Half to a third of the bees go.
There will be plenty of foragers left in the swarmed hive.

They need bees of all ages to cope with wax making, brood rearing etc. It's only in an A/S that it's important that all the flyters go in the empty hive with the queen as they are the swarming instigators

 

[HM Honey]

The colony would run the risk of starvation if ALL the flying bees left with a swarm. Remember also that not ALL flying bees are foragers. The colony will decide at the point of swarming, what mix of bees they need to take and what mix they need to leave behind.

Bees were managing their own colonies a long time before we tried our hands at it....

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Thank you for your help everyone!

Would it be reasonable to assume that it amid the vast quantity of bees in that hive that I missed a queen cell in a hidden corner somewhere, such that there were two sealed cells, and when the virgin queen emerged, she didn’t kill her rival but took off with a large chunk of worker bees?

I don’t think this hive would starve. There are three supers and a brood box being used as a super and all of them are more or less full!

 

[Skyhook]

Do *all* the flying/forager bees go with the queen when she leads a swarm?

I was always under the impression that all flying bees go with a prime swarm, leaving behind all the young bees who have not yet begun the forager phase of their life-cycle..

This bit's confusing me- are you saying the old queen was still present?

 

[ratcatcher]

cant help with an answer, but why at 1830 (6.20pm) was it too late to open and look?
many times my mentor has not been in to help me till 7pm, and all goes ok

 

[The Riviera Kid]

This bit's confusing me- are you saying the old queen was still present?

In my original post, I stated that the original queen was removed to a nuc when queen cells first appeared.

cant help with an answer, but why at 1830 (6.20pm) was it too late to open and look?
many times my mentor has not been in to help me till 7pm, and all goes ok

It would ordinarily have been fine to open at 19.00 on such a warm day, but I didn't have time to get changed, inspect the hive, get home and cleaned up etc. before another appointment about 20 minutes later.

 

[Skyhook]

In my original post, I stated that the original queen was removed to a nuc when queen cells first appeared.

That's what I thought, so not sure of the relevance of the question about prime swarms. All the flying bees should have still been there as no swarm had issued, so plenty of material if there was a 2nd cell.

Alternatively, have you checked the nuc to see if the old queen is still there?

Of course it could be coincidence and the swarm might not have been yours at all.