Digestate Spreading

[Wilco]

I'm interested to know how the conclusion was reached that being near chickens or creosote constituted a factor?

Especially given they were swarms rather than established colonies. Correlation vs. causation again?

Similarly @oxnatbees I probably wouldn't rush to class muck/digestate spreading in the same class as a couple of weeks of Californian wildfires and the latter's associated utter destruction of all forage, although the comment from old tyme skep keepers WRT smells is interesting-- were the warnings due to smells tainting honey or effects on the bees?

 

[drdrday]

Since half of my bees are kept in the chicken run, next to the compost bins, and I repaired the fence around the whole garden, including giving it two coats of creosote this summer, I'm amazed I caught three swarms up there

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sounds like absolute rubbish to me

 

[Ian123]

I hope no one will take offense if I use this forum to actually answer the OP's question.

Bees sometimes abscond from really bad smells. I picked up a "swarm" yesterday (Aug 24th!) which may be one such absconding colony.

Old books from skep beekeeping days warn not to keep bees near "bad smells", which I think is polite code for cesspits (no drains in 17th century cottages!). I know someone who had 2 swarms abscond from a hive, one factor turned out to be it was too near smelly chickens. Another swarm absconded when it was hived next to a just-creosoted fence.

It takes a lot more to make an established colony abandon its brood and stores, but the smell WILL stress them, if only by drowning out their usual communication. And established colonies do sometimes abandon ship: a year or 2 ago this happened with lots of Californian colonies during wildfires which killed all nearby forage and left the sky dark as dusk for 2 weeks. So I would expect your bees to be grumpy for a week or two, and if you were planning anything particularly invasive, maybe leave it 2 weeks.

I would be interested to know if you notice any impact on your honey's taste.

I think the OP had his answer in the first few replies. As to the swarm you collected, isn’t it far more likely it’s late supcedure gone wrong, perhaps a high varroa load or even wasps. The chances of it being related to the OPs question are probably equal to a good alien probingAs to creosote your obviously not aware in the good old days it was common practice to apply direct to the hives with the bees inside! Plenty of my hives have also survived quite happily along side the chicken shed inside the run. Such excuses should be ranked with power cables and telephone masts. Realistically most should look at beekeeping practices first!

 

[Ian123]

sounds like absolute rubbish to me

More appropriately…Smells like rubbish to me

 

[Wilco]

sounds like absolute rubbish to me

I think you mean digestate?

 

[Ian123]

AHB are also in California. Far more likely to abscond due to environmental pressure. In fact it’s in their nature. Relating that to the Uk

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As to creosote your obviously not aware in the good old days it was common practice to apply direct to the hives with the bees inside!

They still creosote hives in Southern Africa, and Scutellata (who are much more prone to absconding at the drop of the hat) were happy enough in them - I even witnessed two swarms moving in to some when I was there.
My chicken run is just over the hedge from the home apiary, and The manure pile from the shed is just a few feet away from the hives. At another apiary my cousin stores all the cow manure from the stock sheds in the next field and the field where the hives are get a good slurry dose every spring. The Garn Cottage apiary is but a hundred yards away from a dairy farm's stockyard, again, no issues

 

[CLB]

Many thanks to everyone for your insights. I have to report today the smell has largely abated and certainly didn't get to anything like the intensity that triggered the intervention from Environmental Health. Our bees are flying as normal and seem to be bringing in lots of pollen, so expecting all is well. All three hives are close to our own garden compost heaps. There is no smell from them, but then we never add animal material and aerate them as much as possible. There still may be a sting in the tail if the contractor comes back with more digestate and we start all over again.

 

[mbc]

Farmers are keen to keep the organic matter content of their soil at a high level so if they're not a mixed farm with dung or slurry to spread they're generally on the look out for other sources, around here if a farm goes out of dairying they tend to carry on keeping a bit of beef mostly to produce dung so their grains continue to do well, there's also a cost free arrangement with one of the dairies who come and park a bloody big container in a field and intermittently send a contractor round to direct ingest the waste product a few inches into the soil.

 

[Wilco]

There still may be a sting in the tail if the contractor comes back with more digestate and we start all over again.

Well you are keeping bees.

 

[oxnatbees]

Especially given they were swarms rather than established colonies. Correlation vs. causation again?

Similarly @oxnatbees I probably wouldn't rush to class muck/digestate spreading in the same class as a couple of weeks of Californian wildfires and the latter's associated utter destruction of all forage, although the comment from old tyme skep keepers WRT smells is interesting-- were the warnings due to smells tainting honey or effects on the bees?

Can't recall clearly to be sure but my impression is, the books imply swarms will abscond.

To answer the other question - the owners of the hives near chickens / creosoted fence moved their hives acriss their gardens and put new swarms in, which stayed.

 

[Wilco]

Can't recall clearly to be sure but my impression is, the books imply swarms will abscond.

To answer the other question - the owners of the hives near chickens / creosoted fence moved their hives acriss their gardens and put new swarms in, which stayed.

Can I just clarify, when you say swarms you're referring to wild caught swarms that haven't settled after being housed as opposed to buying in colonies which have absconded?

 

[oxnatbees]

Excellent point about AHB in CA, though I think most beeks there are a bit paranoid about AHB and buy queens from known breeders.

I was not aware creosote used to be applied direct to hives, thanks for that input. The point that it's used with African bees is also well made. All I can offer is one example and, of course, theymay have absconded for other reasons.

This particular chicken coop was very smelly. We have chickens and add bokashi bran to their food which essentially eliminates the smell, but this chicken keeper was not aware of that trick.

I am unable to come up with a witty response re: alien probing, most frustrating.

 

[oxnatbees]

Can I just clarify, when you say swarms you're referring to wild caught swarms that haven't settled after being housed as opposed to buying in colonies which have absconded?

Yes, wild caught swarms

 

[oxnatbees]

Ian123 suggested:

"As to the swarm you collected, isn’t it far more likely it’s late supcedure gone wrong, perhaps a high varroa load or even wasps."

I'll monitor varroa. Interestingly though there are LOADS of small, furry (young) bees in it, which tends to make me think it is an absconded colony (possibly due to wasps) rather than a swarm of any type. It was about 1kg.

They were on a fence post several hundred meters from the nearest tree. No buildings or hives wirhin sight.

If anyone has any insights into it from this meagre data I'd be most interested.

 

[Ian123]

Swarms naturally contain young bees I’d imagine many simply caught up in the rush to get out. The old bit about the queen leaving with older bees is not true.

 

[Wilco]

Swarms naturally contain young bees I’d imagine many simply caught up in the rush to get out. The old bit about the queen leaving with older bees is not true.

Yes, illogical too as you need young bees to nurse... Even if the older ones can reverse some of their development to go back to wax producing etc..

 

[oxnatbees]

I've collected ~40 swarms, normally maybe 26% are young, small, furry. In this 'swarm' it seems nearer 50%.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

did you count them?