Difficult decision - but killed the Queen.

[Lesley Hoppy]

One of my colonies has been determined to replace their Queen it seems... I panicked and tore out a sealed queen cell on my last inspection - but today there was another beauty -and although the Queen was there - her egg laying was hardly prolific...
My plan was to make a nuc with her as insurance - until I was sure that the new Queen was mated - and then bump her off. My plans were scuppered though - when I realised that my nuc box did not take the 14x12 frames that I have in this hive - so - I have taken a gamble and destroyed her anyway. Felt really bad - she has been a great Queen - my first one - for the last couple of years.
If all goes pear shaped I will have to take some brood from my other hive - where her daughter is Queen - so her genes will live on.....
Someone tell me it was the right decision ....... ?

 

[Oscarmonster]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17580

 

[REDWOOD]

Is the QC on the face of the comb in the middle of the frame and is there only one

 

[oliver90owner]

Done now, so no going back. There were alternatives, of course.

Just watch out for a rash of emergency cells they might build.

 

[Swarm]

If just one it sounds like supersedure, in which case best left alone.

 

[oliver90owner]

Your choice, but if they were to take umbrance at losing the queen there may be several casts. I would certainly not be 'leaving them alone'.

As I said, your choice, after thinking cartefully about the two differing bits of advice.

Can you afford to take the chance?

 

[VEG]

by killing the queen you will also lose brood as it can take more than a month for the new one to come into lay.

 

[Silly Bee]

and although the Queen was there - her egg laying was hardly prolific..



That may be the reason for them making a new one.

 

[Swarm]

Your choice, but if they were to take umbrance at losing the queen there may be several casts. I would certainly not be 'leaving them alone'.

As I said, your choice, after thinking cartefully about the two differing bits of advice.

Can you afford to take the chance?

I wasn't answering your post.
One cell removed replaced by one more sounds more like supersedure than swarm cells.
Now that they are queenless there may well be a rash of emergency cells.

My best left alone comment refers to the situation before killing the queen. Without knowing what is left killing the queen was not the thing to do, so not the best decision, which was the OP's parting comment. Perhaps I should have spoken in past tense.

Best to have left them alone.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Is the QC on the face of the comb in the middle of the frame and is there only one

Yes - only one - and charged with a big fat larva. I was just worried that as soon as it was sealed - she would be off with half the colony ....

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Your choice, but if they were to take umbrance at losing the queen there may be several casts. I would certainly not be 'leaving them alone'.

As I said, your choice, after thinking cartefully about the two differing bits of advice.

Can you afford to take the chance?

Am a bit confused now .... I was planning to leave them alone to give the new queen a chance to emerge. When you say there may be several casts...do you mean they might just abscond ? I thought a caste was a smallish swarm led by a virgin queen? How can swarm cells overtake the cell that is about to be sealed? The queen left developing in the queen cell has such a head start ....I do appreciate all this advice - but as you say - there is no going back.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

by killing the queen you will also lose brood as it can take more than a month for the new one to come into lay.

The old queen was not laying much anyway - which I guess was why they were keen to replace her.... I was worried about losing half the colony if she took off with them....

 

[Erichalfbee]

It appears to be a supersedure cell. The colony is replacing the queen for their own reason. The newly emerged queen would normally get mated and start laying. At some point after that the old queen will disappear. They may well coexist,mother and daughter, for some time. The point is that at all times there is a queen of sorts. By your removing the queen the bees will probably make emergency cells. These will not overtake the supersedure cell you saw but what will happen is that this emerged queen might swarm. The subsequent emergency queens might well swarm in succession till the colony is much depleted.

You will have to look into the hive 5 days after you nobbled the queen to remove these emergency cells.

 

[VEG]

never heard of a swarm with supercedure, the bees either kill off the old queen or the 2 queens co exist for a while.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Thank you so much EricHB - that seems really good advice and exactly what I will do.
I wish I had not killed her but did not realise that mother and daughter could coexist and sort it out between them. I am just paranoid about swarming....

 

[REDWOOD]

Thank you so much EricHB - that seems really good advice and exactly what I will do.
I wish I had not killed her but did not realise that mother and daughter could coexist and sort it out between them. I am just paranoid about swarming....

Yes they will live together for a while until the new queen is up and running, probably the bees do this to make sure the new queen is up to scratch and no break in egg laying, not is all lost but keep an eye for more queen cells

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

never heard of a swarm with supercedure, the bees either kill off the old queen or the 2 queens co exist for a while.

Seriously? It looks like it was a case of supercedure ..... so I now definitely think it was as mistake to kill the old queen.
I had recently moved the colony to 14x12 frames - so it looks pretty empty anyway and I was worried about losing half of them in a swarm...

 

[VEG]

dont worry we all make mistakes and will keep on doing it, as long as you learn from them that is the key thing.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

This forum is invaluable and has taught me at least as much as the beekeeping books! Thank you for all your advice - I just wish I had gone onto the forum and asked before dispatching HM.

 

[oliver90owner]

There are almost always alternatives. Apparent supercedure nearly always doesn't end in swarming, but it can. Your action in killing the queen might, or might not, cause them to build emergency cells along with the supercedure cell, and that could possibly cause one or more swarms a week other emerges.

You just need to be aware of what the bees might do. They don't read the text books and human interference in their activities is likely conter-productive.

The 'leave them alone' advice was obviously flawed, as you can now understand by the response of other posters. I am afraid there are a few on the forum who give silly advice - and some, just to be awkward - and this was one who does this quite often. I doubt the 'tune would have been changed' had I not challenged that posting and you could have finished this whole episode very disappointed, with few bees left in the colony and with a scrub queen, at that.

Regards, RAB