Different types of langstroth frame?

[Smokeyred]

I am planning to buy some LS frames. Looking at the Modern Beekeeping site, I note that they say some beekeepers prefer not to mix the Modern Beekeeping LS frames with other types of LS frame. Until I read this I thought an LS was an LS, but obviously not! Can anyone enlighten a novice?

 

[Amari]

Maybe call them for an explanation?

 

[itma]

The Langstroth standard is well explained here +> http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/lang.html

 

[Holly Bees]

They have bog standard langstroth and jumbo langstroth sizes however you will need to make sure your poly super boxes match your super frames I use md frames in mine!

 

[Smokeyred]

They have bog standard langstroth and jumbo langstroth sizes however you will need to make sure your poly super boxes match your super frames I use md frames in mine!

No, itsnot the size of the frames, rather their design.....

 

[ugcheleuce]

I am planning to buy some LS frames. Looking at the Modern Beekeeping site, I note that they say some beekeepers prefer not to mix the Modern Beekeeping LS frames with other types of LS frame.

1. Where did you read about not wanting to mix frames? I can't find it on their site.

2. They offer three "Langstroth" frame sizes, but they call it by odd names:

* LS deep (232 mm), which they call "LS full depth".
* LS "2/3" (158 mm), which they call "LS medium" (and which oddly they claim is known as a "3/4 medium" elsewhere in the world).
* LS jumbo (288 mm), which they call "LS jumbo".

What is important to note is that the names "2/3" and "3/4" are meaningless, i.e. they don't indicate 2/3 of something or 3/4 of something. They're just names.

What they don't offer is the more usual "137 mm" frame (known in some parts of the rest of the world as the 1/2 frame). One quirky advantage of using both the 137 mm frame and the "jumbo" 288 mm frame is that you can use two 137 mm hive bodies on top of each other, and the jumbo frame will fit.

 

[Smokeyred]

Maybe call them for an explanation?

I guess that is the last resort, though i was hoping there might be someone on the forum who might be able to offer an impartial opinion....

 

[ugcheleuce]

No, itsnot the size of the frames, rather their design...

Do you mean the fact that their top bars are not double thick, but single thick like in the rest of Europe?

Single thick (10 mm) means you gain 10 mm of comb per frame. Double thick (20 mm) means that if your queen has read the same book that you read, and it's the book that says the queen won't cross over the double thick top bar, then your queen won't cross over the top bar.

 

[Smokeyred]

1. Where did you read about not wanting to mix frames? I can't find it on their site.

2. They offer three "Langstroth" frame sizes, but they call it by odd names:

* LS deep (232 mm), which they call "LS full depth".
* LS "2/3" (158 mm), which they call "LS medium" (and which oddly they claim is known as a "3/4 medium" elsewhere in the world).
* LS jumbo (288 mm), which they call "LS jumbo".

What is important to note is that the names "2/3" and "3/4" are meaningless, i.e. they don't indicate 2/3 of something or 3/4 of something. They're just names.

What they don't offer is the more usual "137 mm" frame (known in some parts of the rest of the world as the 1/2 frame). One quirky advantage of using both the 137 mm frame and the "jumbo" 288 mm frame is that you can use two 137 mm hive bodies on top of each other, and the jumbo frame will fit.

http://www.----------------.co.uk/item/48/ls-full-depth-wood-frames---50-pack

This link will take you to the page on the Modern Beekeeping site. Incidentally the frames that i need to buy are for Langstroth brood ....i know what size is needed......its just the design, and if you read the above link you will see that the suggestion is that there is morethan one??

 

[itma]

Langstroth - the worldwide standard hive!

 

[ROACHMAN]

My Sweinty Langstroth brood boxes take the Langstroth deep frame.

I would recommend wood frames from any manufacturer but I would steer clear of plastic (frame and foundation).

Get the 2nd frames from Maisemore at Stoneleigh (£34 for 50), you will have to order and pay for them in advance as they dont usually take them to the shows

James

 

[itma]

http://www.----------------.co.uk/item/48/ls-full-depth-wood-frames---50-pack

This link will take you to the page on the Modern Beekeeping site. Incidentally the frames that i need to buy are for Langstroth brood ....i know what size is needed......its just the design, and if you read the above link you will see that the suggestion is that there is morethan one??

Are you referring to the wiring of the frames rather than the foundation?

 

[Smokeyred]

Do you mean the fact that their top bars are not double thick, but single thick like in the rest of Europe?

Single thick (10 mm) means you gain 10 mm of comb per frame. Double thick (20 mm) means that if your queen has read the same book that you read, and it's the book that says the queen won't cross over the double thick top bar, then your queen won't cross over the top bar.

Yes, that must be right, two widths of top bar. If the queen can't cross over, does that mean she cannot easily enter the box above (if no excluder fitted)?

 

[Smokeyred]

My Sweinty Langstroth brood boxes take the Langstroth deep frame.

I would recommend wood frames from any manufacturer but I would steer clear of plastic (frame and foundation).

Get the 2nd frames from Maisemore at Stoneleigh (£34 for 50), you will have to order and pay for them in advance as they dont usually take them to the shows

James

That looks like the way forward. I was just confused when i learnt that there is more than one design of frame, at least according to the Modern Beekeeping site. Difference in the width of top bar, evidently.

John

 

[drstitson]

"Our Medium hive bodies DO NOT take Langstroth shallow frames. "

do you mean this bit?

that's because their "supers" are not LS supers but instead are mediums (a wee bit deeper - roughly equivalent to half a LS jumbo brood box tall).

 

[ugcheleuce]

http://www.----------------.co.uk/item/48/ls-full-depth-wood-frames---50-pack

Ah, okay, it says:
These frames have a top bar which is the same thickness all along its length. This gives great strength but it does lift the frame up, reducing the top bee space, although this is countered by a corresponding increase in bottom space. They can be mixed with conventional frames with thin lugs but some beekeepers may prefer to keep them separate.

Then I misunderstood -- I thought they meant that the top bar is 10 mm thick, but what they mean is that the top bar is the standard 15 mm and that their lugs are also 15 mm thick.

This means that the frame sits 5 mm higher in the box, and if you have a box on top of that box where the frames are not 5 mm higher, then the frames are too close to each other, and the bees can glue them together.

Personally I would have thought that making the lugs the same thickness as the top bar is simply a cost-saving on their part, as it reduces the number of cuts you have to make while building the frame.

So, the warning about mixing is a warning that you might not get the beespace you're hoping to get.

 

[oliver90owner]

you're hoping to get.

Says it all really. Just 'hoping' is not the way to go. Far better to think about it first, than make an informed decision.

RAB

 

[iand]

That looks like the way forward. I was just confused when i learnt that there is more than one design of frame, at least according to the Modern Beekeeping site. Difference in the width of top bar, evidently.

John

If you look on the Dadant site you will see that there are two types of top bar. One with a wedge piece top bar in which you use pre-wired/or not foundation and one with top & bottom groove, this is for use as pre-wired frames, in which you the foundation or for use with plastic foundation. This top bar has a deeper section, not sure off hand about top bar widths. Also we only use deeps for brood & supers, so not able to comment on jumbo or shallow/super sizes.


Ian

 

[Smokeyred]

Ah, okay, it says:
These frames have a top bar which is the same thickness all along its length. This gives great strength but it does lift the frame up, reducing the top bee space, although this is countered by a corresponding increase in bottom space. They can be mixed with conventional frames with thin lugs but some beekeepers may prefer to keep them separate.

Then I misunderstood -- I thought they meant that the top bar is 10 mm thick, but what they mean is that the top bar is the standard 15 mm and that their lugs are also 15 mm thick.

This means that the frame sits 5 mm higher in the box, and if you have a box on top of that box where the frames are not 5 mm higher, then the frames are too close to each other, and the bees can glue them together.

Personally I would have thought that making the lugs the same thickness as the top bar is simply a cost-saving on their part, as it reduces the number of cuts you have to make while building the frame.

So, the warning about mixing is a warning that you might not get the beespace you're hoping to get.

That would suggest that mixing is a bad idea, and therefore, if Modern Beekeeping are the only ones to use this design, it is better to steer clear of their frames?

 

[MuswellMetro]

you could pm rooftops, he has a conection with the firm but not seen him on here recently