Different types of foundation and different cell types

[Swn58]

The wax weighed in at conventions likely as not contains imported wax anyway.

Just what I thought. Thorne's don't ask for a 'paper-trail' for every block of wax do they?

 

[pargyle]

Same here I plan to use the same both drone/worker foundation this season being as I have some left and bought more of both.
Also wondering which company is going to give me the best price for my wax I have?

I'm surprised you have any left after making all those candles ! Far more to be made selling it as candles than trading it in ...or start and make your own foundation.... much better for the cut comb you were talking about doing...

 

[madasafish]

So just to check, you are saying that there is really no difference between the premium and normal so can just get the standard? Also, any ideas about better foundation. Thanks for the reply.

Of course there is a real and measurable difference.
The buyer of premium wax gets a warm glow knowing they have spent a premium on a superior product for their bees, and believing the advertising blurb.

"Frankly my dear I don't give a damn" appears to be my bees' answer.

So I buy only non premium.
Can I notice a difference?. Well I tried it once. Saw the same effect as Premium Petrol on My car ... None.

 

[Ian123]

Let’s not forget there’s now premium super sterilised for the really gullible

 

[Finman]

I've heard that if you let them draw it out themselves then they just build drone cells so the colony doesn't become amazing. Anyone know?

When a wild colony makes its combs, average amount of drone cells are 25%.

 

[Finman]

Also, I have also been asked whether I want drone or worker cells. This might sound like a stupid question, but will the bees still make drones if I have a hive with only foundation for worker cells?

Thanks

Cut from foundation 1/3 off from bottom. Bees draw there drone cell. Do it into two frames.

If you do not arrange to bees drone cell space, they do it here and there. It disturbes hive inspections.

 

[Into the lions den]

People are a lot fussier than the bees are.

As long as it is good quality residue minimal wax and not too soft (some cheaper wax can be and sags) the bees will be very happy.

Being British or EU origin does not guarantee anything other than provenance for those to whom it matters (you pay your money so its your choice). There can be all manner of wax miscible contaminants in it, both environmental and beekeeper introduced.

Was in a wax plant in Spain some years ago and they were making a 70 pallet foundation order for Libya at the time. It only contained 30% beeswax and you would never have known, and the bees loved it apparently...they showed me videos. Spanish wax can smell a bit like old car tyres at times...so the impure wax seemed nicer to my nose than the pure. Experimented with a couple of cartons of the full strength (and thus rubbery smelling) wax a few years ago and despite my dislike of the smell the bees just jumped on it. One important UK beekeeper imports African wax from natural/organic sources and has it milled. It is darkish coloured and smells very smoky. Again..the bees love it.

We gat all our own wax milled at Thornes, and a good job they do too, several tonnes a year, but we also buy in from abroad. To be perfectly honest I think the bees prefer the imported...as per a thread on twitter earlier this year.

So..advice would be (and I know this is a rejuvenated old thread) not to fuss too much. Provenance does not matter to the bees, and even absolute beeswax purity seems to be only of passing importance. All the major UK vendors of foundation are very reputable and would not sell a debased product... o premium or standard grade? Both will be just fine.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The wax weighed in at conventions likely as not contains imported wax anyway.

And that's the only stuff they use in their 'premium' wax, some of the stuff exchanged at conventions does look extremely ropey. Even the lads taking the wax sometimes admit they've raised an eyebrow.
I'd rather take my chances and go for the bog standard, the bees don't seem to mind

 

[Arfermo]

Last year in a fit of magnanimity I offered to mentor a losing beginner some 20 miles away who had bought one working hive and umpteen boxes and stuff from a retiring beekeeper and then rushed out and snapped up hundreds of new deep and shallow national frames with wired foundation already in them from somewhere else which she then stored flat in a variety of containers in a small perspex outhouse over the previous winter having lost the bees. Just guess the state of the foundation!! I advised her that she wasn't going to be a beekeeper anytime soon but offered to try and straighten out the foundation in 5 of her frames and get them drawn out so she could collect them and try again. NO MATTER WHAT I DID MY BEES WOULD NO TOUCH HER FOUNDATION - EVER.
Burnt the frames I had from her and advised to get rid of the rest. Now understand why she resigned her local BKA membership - too clever by half to learn. Conclusion, buy from recognised suppliers only.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One important UK beekeeper imports African wax from natural/organic sources and has it milled. It is darkish coloured and smells very smoky

It's the way it's processed - African beekeepers are always told to use loads of smoke and some beekeepers really do lay gouts of it on so that will get transmitted to both the wax and the honey. The wax is also rendered down on open fires, often using green wood (I may have some photos somewhere of them doing it) so that will lay even more smoke down.
I have found if the beekeepers are using 'modern' top bar hives and using them responsibly then most of the wax will be seldom brooded and nice and clean - here's some wax from the Selous/nyasa wildlife corridor in Tanzania


But if the beekeepers are using traditional log or bark hives then the whole colony is killed or driven out (again using loads of smoke) and they will render down everything including any old manky brood comb they find.

 

[mbc]

I make a lot of my own foundations, obviously with 100% beeswax from our own operation, but I did buy in some very cheap Chinese foundation to run a comparison test and my ungrateful ***** of bees preferred the cheap stuff, I wasn't pleased but when you try these things you have to listen to the evidence so I've gone back to the vendor of the cheap stuff for more.

 

[madasafish]

I bought some Easibee foundation on Amazon. I assume it is Chinese. Bees appeared to like it. No issues.

 

[The Poot]

I bought an Abelo hive with frames & foundation in a sale through NBS. The foundation was the sterilised stuff and I have to say it was lovely stuff. Would I buy it outside of a “hive deal” - no. I’ve always found Thornes stuff good.
I did buy from another main equipment supplier last year and found the stuff (in my opinion) very poor, but as already said, the bees didn’t care.

 

[Into the lions den]

It's the way it's processed - African beekeepers are always told to use loads of smoke and some beekeepers really do lay gouts of it on so that will get transmitted to both the wax and the honey. The wax is also rendered down on open fires, often using green wood (I may have some photos somewhere of them doing it) so that will lay even more smoke down.
I have found if the beekeepers are using 'modern' top bar hives and using them responsibly then most of the wax will be seldom brooded and nice and clean - here's some wax from the Selous/nyasa wildlife corridor in Tanzania
View attachment 29693View attachment 29694

But if the beekeepers are using traditional log or bark hives then the whole colony is killed or driven out (again using loads of smoke) and they will render down everything including any old manky brood comb they find.

Seen that picture before...it is beautiful stuff. Some of the very best.

 

[Into the lions den]

NO MATTER WHAT I DID MY BEES WOULD NO TOUCH HER FOUNDATION - EVER.
only.

Must have been horrendous stuff for that to happen or perhaps something had happened to contaminate it prior to reaching the bees. Have seen bees make combs on chicken wire as foundationless...so they are not especially fussy what base they get to work from...so if you dont mind some very odd looking combs they will take most things...apart from that wax of course.

 

[Arfermo]

Must have been horrendous stuff for that to happen or perhaps something had happened to contaminate it prior to reaching the bees. Have seen bees make combs on chicken wire as foundationless...so they are not especially fussy what base they get to work from...so if you dont mind some very odd looking combs they will take most things...apart from that wax of course.

that bees are not very fussy and can work almost everything out without human directives. But in the case of this young lady she was definitely 'up the creek' and going nowhere, and I am not interested in finding out what she is now doing, especially after telling me that she was unable to catch swarms in her area to get off to a flying (pun) start when North Shropshire has hundreds of beeks all around her. See what I mean? but thanks for responding to my rubbish!! But definitely something odd with the stuff she spent a fortune on at a 'SALE' somewhere. Some sale!!

 

[Finman]

During my 60 years beekeeping I have seen only one kind of cell types in hives. Bee cells.