Difference between sub sisters, super sisters and half sisters?

[snoop]

Anybody got a simple explanation for the differenece between sub sisters, half sisters and super sisters.

Thanks

 

[sherwood]

Anybody got a simple explanation for the differenece between sub sisters, half sisters and super sisters.

Thanks

I will hazard a guess here a full sister is the result of two bees laid by a queen that has fertilised both eggs from the sperm of the same donor drone. ie A queen on a maiden flight can get fertilised by mutliple drones.
It follows therefore that a half sister is from the same queen but with different donor sperm to that of her sister.
A sub sister I can only presume would be were 2 sister bees from the same queen might be from a different sub species ie one may have come from milifera lingusta(italian) mating with the queen the other melifera melifera mating with the same queen only a guess here

 

[enrico]

I will hazard a guess here a full sister is the result of two bees laid by a queen that has fertilised both eggs from the sperm of the same donor drone. ie A queen on a maiden flight can get fertilised by mutliple drones.
It follows therefore that a half sister is from the same queen but with different donor sperm to that of her sister.
A sub sister I can only presume would be were 2 sister bees from the same queen might be from a different sub species ie one may have come from milifera lingusta(italian) mating with the queen the other melifera melifera mating with the same queen only a guess here

Oh! Well thought out.

 

[alanf]

Sister is the relationship between female siblings of the same father and mother. For most animals like ourselves we get an assortment of each of our parents DNA to make ours. 50% of our DNA is identical to each of our parents. Siblings to ourselves will get a different assortment so 50% of my DNA is identical to my sister on average.

Bees are different, drones have only one copy of the DNA. So workers with the same drone father get identical copies from him (100%). Since they get half the mother (queen) DNA (50%) they are more closely related (75%) than human sisters and are sometimes referred to as super sisters.

But the queen mates with several drones, so bees from different drones share no father DNA (0%) only the queens DNA (50%) so on average will have 25% identical DNA. They are half sisters, much the same as for humans with different fathers.

Several authors refer to these relationships as sub-families in a hive, one closely related subfamily per drone that the queen mated with. You can sometimes recognise workers which are alike and those not alike in a hive, it's particularly striking if one parent had a DNA abnormality such as a different eye colour.

Sub sister isn't a term that I recall being used in the books I've seen. Is it a synonym for bee half sisters? You would have to ask whoever was using it. Addition: found at least one US reference using it as a synonym for half sister, i.e. the workers in a hive are all either super sisters or sub sisters.

 

[DanBee]

Spot on, Alan.

 

[snoop]

Sister is the relationship between female siblings of the same father and mother. For most animals like ourselves we get an assortment of each of our parents DNA to make ours. 50% of our DNA is identical to each of our parents. Siblings to ourselves will get a different assortment so 50% of my DNA is identical to my sister on average.

Bees are different, drones have only one copy of the DNA. So workers with the same drone father get identical copies from him (100%). Since they get half the mother (queen) DNA (50%) they are more closely related (75%) than human sisters and are sometimes referred to as super sisters.

But the queen mates with several drones, so bees from different drones share no father DNA (0%) only the queens DNA (50%) so on average will have 25% identical DNA. They are half sisters, much the same as for humans with different fathers.



Several authors refer to these relationships as sub-families in a hive, one closely related subfamily per drone that the queen mated with. You can sometimes recognise workers which are alike and those not alike in a hive, it's particularly striking if one parent had a DNA abnormality such as a different eye colour.

Sub sister isn't a term that I recall being used in the books I've seen. Is it a synonym for bee half sisters? You would have to ask whoever was using it. Addition: found at least one US reference using it as a synonym for half sister, i.e. the workers in a hive are all either super sisters or sub sisters.

I was looking up some genetics questions for an exam. Thanks for your reply . All 3 are mentioned in the book but no explanations

 

[dpearce4]

If you can get into the lecture by Keith Delaplane at the national honey show this year he may be talking about them in it as he did so on tuesday when West Sussex Beekeepers were very lucky to have him give a lecture on "The Superorganism and why it matters" it was an execilent evening and Mr Delaplane is a great speaker. He will be doing this one on the friday at the NHS at 4pm i really recommend it.

Copied from the west sussex september newsletter:-

"Keith S. Delaplane is based at University of
Georgia, USA. He is a Professor and Walter
B. Hill Fellow, an entomologist
and world-renowned expert in beekeeping.
He has developed integrated pest
management strategies that address diseases,
pests and other factors that
threaten to destroy or impair bee colonies.
His methods have been adopted by the
beekeeping community at home and
abroad to manage major honeybee pests.
He is in Britain on a six month sabbatical


The title of Keith’s presentation is ‘The Super Organism and Why it
Matters’ in which he will attempt to unfold the biology of the honeybee
at its most basic evolutionary levels and explain how this knowledge
can be used to improve beekeeping management."

His Lecture on sat at the NHS is Bee Breeding: Fact or Fiction? if its anything like the talk on tuesday it will be very informative and i will be trying to get into it.