DerekM Board - A method of AS

[user 6228]

After describing it a couple of times, I thought it might be an idea to do it with pictures. Its inspired by the Taranov board. It is a method of doing an AS without finding the queen. As we dont mark or clip the queen our queens are often elusive at AS time, so we hit on this idea after the frustration of trying to find the queen. So when we did this again yesterday we photogrpahed it.

You need a sheet a bucket, a couple of sheets, and 600mm (2ft) sq piece of wood e.g. OSR board.
put the bucket on the ground a few metres away from the hive to be AS, sheet over the t bucket and the board on top of the sheet. Moderately shake each frame on to the sheet check the queen ISNT on the frame and return to the original hive. Leave enough bees to look after the brood.

Build up new hive a few metres away from the original hive, with some foundation frames at each end. Use another sheet to make a ramp up to the entrance. There is no rush
Now Wait! The bees will cluster tightly under the board.

If you wait long enough, e.g. the time to make and drink a cup of coffee, a few bees will start to rise from the cluster and fly round the board for sometime, then fly away in directions away the original hive You have just convinced some scouts to go and look for new home. So some of the bees have been convinced they have swarmed.
Now pick up the board

and shake into the hive. put the crownboard/roof on

Brush stragglers on to the sheet on leading into hive.
They go very quickly into the hive

in only a few minutes they are all in.

Gently add the remaining foundation frames to the hive
It seems less fraught and more foolproof (so far) but needs a nice day and some room to work in.

The name ... thats Finmans idea

 

[dpearce4]

love it.

 

[Tom Bick]

Am I right in this is a method of AS without finding the queen? But you say don't shake the bees from the frame with the queen?

Sorry but have I missed something.

 

[Cussword]

Am I right in this is a method of AS without finding the queen? But you say don't shake the bees from the frame with the queen?

Sorry but have I missed something.

He said to check that the queen isn't on the frames he returns to the hive.

 

[ellypatt]

I think it's don't put the queen back in with the brood, i.e. make sure she's been shaken off. Presumably don't shake the frame with the qc(s) you want to keep, either? Nice pics, thanks for sharing!

 

[Bosleeu]

Am I right in this is a method of AS without finding the queen? But you say don't shake the bees from the frame with the queen?

Sorry but have I missed something.

I think you make sure she is NOT on any frames you put back in the hive, meaning after all the brood frames have been shaken off she should be in the cluster somewhere . So she goes with them in the new hive. The rest of the colony (super bees and the ones that return to the hive?) in the old hive then look after the brood and raise a new queen.

Please correct if I misunderstood DerekM but I thought that was the general plan.

 

[Tom Bick]

Ok but it is slightly flowed in that the flying bees or a very large percentage will return to the old hive and a large percentage of the nurse bees go with the queen and no brood. Will it work? Probably, but will it satisfy the bees swarming instinct?

 

[Bosleeu]

Ok but it is slightly flowed in that the flying bees or a very large percentage will return to the old hive and a large percentage of the nurse bees go with the queen and no brood. Will it work? Probably, but will it satisfy the bees swarming instinct?

From the pictures it looks like a fair amount stays with the queen. Main thing is you separate the queen from the brood. As long as you put a QE under the box until they have some brood I think it should work, and from what Derek says it seems to work well.

 

[user 6228]

Ok but it is slightly flowed in that the flying bees or a very large percentage will return to the old hive and a large percentage of the nurse bees go with the queen and no brood. Will it work? Probably, but will it satisfy the bees swarming instinct?

"a very large percentage will return to the old hive "
Yes, but I think thats the same flaw in a lot of AS procedures.
" but will it satisfy the bees swarming instinct?"
For us its proved more reliable in satisfying the swarming instinct. It more closely follows the natural swarming process by giving the bees time outside any nest , an equilvalent to their hanging around in a tree waiting for the scouts to decide, compared to being dumped a frame at a time into a new box. btw we have never clipped a queen or put a QX under the brood box.
By doing this a few metres from the hive you can see the scouts take off and orientate rather than just flying bees returning to the original hive.
Our observations are not enough to be statistically valid, but its based on scientificaly proven bee behaviour and so far it works.

 

[itma]

Seems a funny sort of AS.

Brood remains on the original stand. But frames (and QCs?) are shaken? They will be rejoined by flyers.
Q and some non-fliers (nurse bees) go on foundation in a hive some yards away. And presumably need feeding.

Or have I misunderstood?

 

[Tom Bick]

I guess I am fortunate and only ever had one or two elusive queens and manage to spot them and the rest are easy so see so in a situation where you are not able to find a queens this could work but to me it's a bit drastic and similar although managed to just letting them swarm and then collect from a tree.

 

[rolande]

.....Moderately shake each frame on to the sheet check the queen ISNT on the frame and return to the original hive.

If you have difficulty finding the queen in the first place and you don't actually see the queen during the operation how do you know that she's not on the comb you're returning?

 

[user 6228]

Seems a funny sort of AS.

Brood remains on the original stand. But frames (and QCs?) are shaken? They will be rejoined by flyers.
Q and some non-fliers (nurse bees) go on foundation in a hive some yards away. And presumably need feeding.

Or have I misunderstood?

No thats it, only a gentle shake (if at all) if QCs on a board.

We took it that the old queen goes somewhere new with all the bees that want to swarm, just like the taranov board approach. The difference is it done away from the orignal hive, so you can see whats going on and have room to work, and you deliberately wait before puttting them in the new box.

 

[user 6228]

If you have difficulty finding the queen in the first place and you don't actually see the queen during the operation how do you know that she's not on the comb you're returning?

WELL DONE, WELL SPOTTED THANK YOU I missed something out. We used an intermediate box for the shook frames so we could empty out completely the original brood box and floor. We then replaced the frame back from the intermediate box into the original.

THEN

its much much easier on a board thats been shaken and held upto the light, and you completely empty the old box before filling it up again.

I wish the Admin would let me go back and edit that in.

 

[Fahey]

Can we assume that if you don't manage to shake the queen out that then the bees won't cluster under the board like a swarm?

 

[Tom Bick]

After it is finished what do you then do with the hives? They stay in their current location, you move the one with the queen, do you swap them around. Just thinking of the few flying bees with the queen and depending on what you do with the boxes you could either get a load of new flyers with the queen and risk damaging the brood or have even more return to the original hive leaving the queen with a greater amount of nurse bees. Move the queen a few miles and no problem.

 

[user 6228]

The old queen in the new hive stays in that location - they've "swarmed". The "non swarmed" brood , the QC and its nurse bees stay where they always been.

 

[Glenviewbee]

Wow! That certainly looks like sticking to the K I S S principles. Might give it a go next time I can't find the queen (which won't be long knowing my track record) - now just to find some sheets

 

[Amari]

Surely you are in charge of the linen cupboard?

 

[Glenviewbee]

Surely you are in charge of the linen cupboard?

Don't call me 'Shirley'....