Delighted...then puzzled....and some things to sort!

[Tremyfro]

Finally...able to get into the hives after 9 days .....this was the first day that we were actually comfortable about looking in the hives. The wind had dropped to a light breeze and it was actually warm!
The Pond Hives were fine...but will have to move Hive 1 into a nuc this week.. Brood on only 3 frames....plenty of stores and my lovely Queen was still in residence.
In the Bee Yard...
We looked through the nucs first....two were Queened and had eggs. One was dying out...the queen cell hadn't emerged....so shook the remaining bees out in front of the other hives. Two had polished cells...but no sign of a queen in either. Will be thinking about adding a patch of eggs...to see what they do. Hopefully virgins are in there somewhere....if not some eggs will give us a clue if they make queen cells.
The big surprise came next..... last week we thought Hive 3 must have swarmed as there was no sign of the Green Queen...we found many Queen cells...so took down many of them...leaving 2.
This week when we checked Nuc 5 ...there were eggs.....great.....there was also a big Queen with a tiny bit of green on her back. So that is where she went...we exclaimed! Did she swarm? I think it may be possible that she snuck onto the frame we put in Nuc 5. .....how we did that...I will never know!
When we inspected Hive 3 .....we did find a new Queen...so marked her Blue. She is already laying...fab.
In the Long Hive Blue...there is a lovely Queen...some Bias...so she is well away.
All the hives had enough stores to last until next inspection....it is a real worry with the poor weather but so far all is good.
I do have a question...after all this waffle.....the two nucs...which so far queens
have not been detected....how long can I leave it before queening them...will they be ok for another 10 days? If I put a small amount of comb with eggs in...and they make queen cells....can I take it that there are no virgin queens in the hive? And so then can I use these nucs for mated queens?

 

[pargyle]

OK ... your excitement is showing .. you need to revisit your post and put a bit of structure in it if you want some advice ..

Nuc 1 ... What done and when .. current state

Nuc 2 ... Ditto

Hive 1 .. Ditto

etc.

The question(s) in your last paragraph can only be sensibly answered if we have a bit clearer idea of what has been done (I'm sure the information is in there and probably by reading your previous posts we could get there - but ... you are right .. a bit too much waffle !!)

 

[enrico]

Just read the last four lines.......seems clear to me!
You can leave the nucs until they die!
Just because they make queen cells does not mean there is no queen, it is a guide though!
You can use the nucs for mated queens
E

 

[pargyle]

Just read the last four lines.......seems clear to me!
E

Well ... where's your advice then Enrico ???

 

[Thymallus]

It won,t do any harm to put some eggs etc in. If they are queenless they should draw out new queen cells. If not they will have some extra brood.......but may still be queenless, it's not infallible but should delay any laying worker's.

 

[Obee1]

OK ... your excitement is showing .. you need to revisit your post and put a bit of structure in it if you want some advice ..

Nuc 1 ... What done and when .. current state

Nuc 2 ... Ditto

Hive 1 .. Ditto

etc.

The question(s) in your last paragraph can only be sensibly answered if we have a bit clearer idea of what has been done (I'm sure the information is in there and probably by reading your previous posts we could get there - but ... you are right .. a bit too much waffle !!)

You beat me to it Pargyle. Wow confusing ....how many hives/ nucs? And I saw the hives last week!
Anyhow well done tremy. Multi hive owner. And certainly not a donothingguy either! Finny will be proud.

 

[enrico]

Well ... where's your advice then Enrico ???

Yep, sorry pargyle, I put it in as an edit as I realised it needed something! Seems I am in the minority anyway.
E

 

[pargyle]

Just read the last four lines.......seems clear to me!
You can leave the nucs until they die!
Just because they make queen cells does not mean there is no queen, it is a guide though!
You can use the nucs for mated queens
E

Yes ... I've just re-read (again) the earlier part of the post which was what confused me most ..

"We looked through the nucs first....two were Queened and had eggs. One was dying out...the queen cell hadn't emerged....so shook the remaining bees out in front of the other hives. Two had polished cells...but no sign of a queen in either. Will be thinking about adding a patch of eggs...to see what they do. Hopefully virgins are in there somewhere....if not some eggs will give us a clue if they make queen cells."

and it does make more sense when read in conjunction with the last four lines .. case of the trees getting lost in the forest.

I would agree with your advice in these circumstances ... perhaps the OP has been a victim of too many splits early in the season... which, if I recall correctly, someone said was a risk in one of Tremyfro's earlier threads. No great harm done though .. for an early years beekeeper she has some good hives and good results.

 

[Tremyfro]

Yes ...sorry...was excited at all the success! And finding the Green Queen in the Nuc 6!
Nuc 1....Queen+ plus eggs
Nuc 2 and 3..... No Queens seen...polished cells....almost all donated brood emerged.
Nuc 4..... Queen + plus eggs.
Nuc 5.... Which was always a gamble...failed.
Nuc 6.....Green Queen+ plus eggs....Green Queen which was accidentally on frames donated from Hive 3.
So Nuc 2 and Nuc 3. ....may be Queen minus. There are polished cells. Both Nucs were quiet and easy ...no smoke required. So sort of have a feeling there are queens there...not that I can trust that!
I have 2 new Queens arriving soon...so was thinking that if they turn out to be queenless....I could use the nucs to introduce the queens....and then combine to requeen my buzzy hives. Of course...got to be sure they are queenless first and I wanted to be sure it wouldn't be too long for them to wait....in regard to die off. So was thinking of adding eggs.....and if they make Queen cells....take those down and queen with my new Carniolans. It being safe to do so?

 

[pargyle]

Yes ...sorry...was excited at all the success! And finding the Green Queen in the Nuc 6!
Nuc 1....Queen+ plus eggs
Nuc 2 and 3..... No Queens seen...polished cells....almost all donated brood emerged.
Nuc 4..... Queen + plus eggs.
Nuc 5.... Which was always a gamble...failed.
Nuc 6.....Green Queen+ plus eggs....Green Queen which was accidentally on frames donated from Hive 3.
So Nuc 2 and Nuc 3. ....may be Queen minus. There are polished cells. Both Nucs were quiet and easy ...no smoke required. So sort of have a feeling there are queens there...not that I can trust that!
I have 2 new Queens arriving soon...so was thinking that if they turn out to be queenless....I could use the nucs to introduce the queens....and then combine to requeen my buzzy hives. Of course...got to be sure they are queenless first and I wanted to be sure it wouldn't be too long for them to wait....in regard to die off. So was thinking of adding eggs.....and if they make Queen cells....take those down and queen with my new Carniolans. It being safe to do so?

Yes ... you could do that ... or you could combine the two nucs and give them a queen which would be a stronger colony to take forward with one of your new queens -you could even add the bees from the failing nuc to it .. and then use the other new queen to requeen one of your more feisty hives ...

Nucs are often easier to handle than full size colonies but getting a bigger colony through winter (and getting some honey) is often better in beekeeping terms than lots of small colonies.

 

[Tremyfro]

Yes I have thought of combining the 2 nucs....they are destined for my second long hive....as they are on 12x14 frames.....but I have been waiting to see if they got queens. The queens would be daughters from my Lovely Carniolan Queen. One Nuc was made on 7.5.15 and one on 11.5.15. Both had nice queen cells on the face of the comb. The weather was bad after the nucs were made...so I may have lost the queens. I will add some eggs tomorrow and see what they do with them. If no joy then I can combine and use one of the new queens. Thank you for the advice.
It is all very well reading about manipulations but actually doing them successfully only comes with experience. There is lots to learn but it is really interesting.
I hope to end the summer with 6 colonies and a few nucs to over winter.

 

[B+.]

A colony without a queen gradually loses its will to survive as the bees get older. They become foragers and aren't interested in looking after any queen you give them. A frame of eggs will keep their morale up, even if you destroy any quen cells they make.
When I introduce a valuable queen, I prefer to make them queenless for 9 days then destroy the Emergency cells. So long as there are new bees emerging all the time, they will still take care of the queen

 

[Obee1]

A colony without a queen gradually loses its will to survive as the bees get older. They become foragers and aren't interested in looking after any queen you give them. A frame of eggs will keep their morale up, even if you destroy any quen cells they make.
When I introduce a valuable queen, I prefer to make them queenless for 9 days then destroy the Emergency cells. So long as there are new bees emerging all the time, they will still take care of the queen

Hi B+. If you have a colony of older forager bees, ie a few weeks queenless would they care for eggs/ brood - being as there are no nurse bees around.?

 

[Tremyfro]

A colony without a queen gradually loses its will to survive as the bees get older. They become foragers and aren't interested in looking after any queen you give them. A frame of eggs will keep their morale up, even if you destroy any quen cells they make.
When I introduce a valuable queen, I prefer to make them queenless for 9 days then destroy the Emergency cells. So long as there are new bees emerging all the time, they will still take care of the queen

Oh right...well these two nucs ...if queenless will be perfect then. That was what I was worried about...not so much the queenless state but how long they could be left without being demoralised and ...dying out...of course.
If they turn out to have queens....then I will make 2 new nucs from the colonies to be requeened and recombine later...got that. If all is successful.....I might even end up with spare queens....yay...I will be a beekeeper with riches!
A frame of mixed bias for each today......

 

[B+.]

Hi B+. If you have a colony of older forager bees, ie a few weeks queenless would they care for eggs/ brood - being as there are no nurse bees around.?

In generel, temporal polymorphism in honeybees means they perform a specific task at a given age. However, bees that have not performed a certain task, such as over-wintered bees that are chronologically old but biologically still young, can nurse larvae. Field bees at this time of year are like wrinkled old prunes and don't do a very good job of nursing larvae. Thats not saying some of them won't tend them...just that they won't do a good job
If you think of the life expectancy of a worker at this time of year, a "few" weeks is quite a large percentage of their life

 

[B+.]

A frame of mixed bias for each today......

I remember thinking that the life cycle of the honeybee was incredibly boring as a beginner. In fact, it is crucial to so many things in beekeeping.