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Mike a 

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easy tiger - not the face ! at the local beek assoc beginners meetings, the impression was given that a frame or two a year was the plan, I'll get clarification on that tonight.

my 'problem' ( as you can probably see from my profile I'm a beginner - no colonies, low post number, hardly a trouble maker ) is that I'm now trying to work out how/when you transfer 60-70% of the frames over without massive disruption to the colony - do it early in the year and surely they'll spend energy drawing comb rather than building brood and stores. late in the year and you're gonna be removing stores no ? middle of year - brood and stores ? if asking the questions offends people let me know.

Rgds

D
Hi Dave,
I've seen some very old combs since becoming a bee keeper, one colony I saw had been on the same combs for over 5 years and the colony never really amounted to much each year. The owner had tried to requeen more than once but it made no difference. The owner took advice and swapped out all the old frames and put in brand new frames with new foundation and followed the advice on feeding them until most of the frames had been drawn out, that year the colony collected x3 more excess honey, the queen laid up 5-6 frames full both sides of brood.

So swapping a couple of frames a year is worthless if there is 10-11 frames in the brood chamber, much better advice is to shook swarm the colony (replace all the frames the same day) or if this option is a little to brutal then use the bailey method to swap out the old frames once all the brood has emerged.

As for when this should be done... thats down to each bee keeper. Personally I favour the shook swarm method for three reasons * and generally aim to shook swarm them around May/June time after most of the OSR (oil seed rape) has finished.

* 1 - Hygiene
2 - IPM (integrated pest management) chemical free method of removing 95%+ of all varroa without using any chemicals
3 - I think the colony bounces back quicker and healthier when given no choice but to draw out new frames.
 
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drstitson 

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once colony strong you can move frames away from the broodnest and once everything has emerged you bin. no depletion of brood or stores.

likewise bailey comb change - all brood allowed to emerge before disposal.

shook swarm is the least conservative as all brood discarded BUT allegedly the bees benefit from the healthy environment and prosper.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Just a question - how would you effect a Bailey change on a behaus -22 frames long and not really a modular structure like your (dare I say it) traditional beehive - you can't really slap another beehaus brood on top - would you just put an ordinary 14x12 on top (not ideal). Just curious that's all - part of the job really being a nosy b***ger!
 

irobson 

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cool, thanks for all the input, very much appreciated.

so far, the cost isn't a problem, was given as a present for my 40th, but I can see that being a problem if you're gonna do it large scale.

for me I guess, as it was 'free' and I'm not looking at supplying Tescos, I'll give it a bash and see where we get to. TBH, I'd have expected to see a few of these for sale on EBay, etc, if they weren't all that good - only seen one so far.

thanks for all the useful info ladies and gents, much appreciated.

DaveN
Dave. Check your pms
 

oliver90owner 

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Just think 'Horizontal', then there is no problem at all of how to do it. Easy, no humping brood boxes about.

Regards, RAB
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Just think 'Horizontal', then there is no problem at all of how to do it. Easy, no humping brood boxes about.

Regards, RAB
Maybe I'm a bit tired but I need an explanation here : Horizontal - same where does new brood box go or QX splitting BB in two, wait until brood emerge, replace with foundation wait until drawn QX back in and Q on new combs and remove rest of old comb.
Sorry if I'm sounding a bit lazy, but I'm busy preparing a presentation on things that go bang and I've suddenly got curious about how you'd do a comb change.
 

oliver90owner 

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Horizontal hive. Think vertical Q/E.

Just the opposite to vertical hive and horizontal Q/E.

The problem is not so much changing the bees to new comb but getting the stores out of the old comb,.... should you wish to remove them straight away.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Yes I think I'm getting the picture - nowhere to move stores 'up' as such.
In all the Beehaus sounds like a Posh movable frame hive taking inspiration from a TBH. So instead of a 'Kenyan' do we have a 'Chelsea' for all the Chelsea farmers :)
 

Surreybeekeeper 

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Really interesting. I was considering a bailey on my Beehaus this year but just couldnt work it through. I had considered two supers on top of each other to store the frame but doubt the size would work?

Are you saying work it horizontally instead? Trying to imagine how this will work......

Hope all well

James
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Really interesting. I was considering a bailey on my Beehaus this year but just couldnt work it through. I had considered two supers on top of each other to store the frame but doubt the size would work?

Are you saying work it horizontally instead? Trying to imagine how this will work......

Hope all well

James
I think what RAB is suggesting is to isolate the queen to a small part of the brood box with some laying space - all existing brood on the other side of the excluder - when all brood emerge - take out all the comb that side replace with foundation and move queen over then do the same with the rest of the combs (I may be wrong though)
 

oliver90owner 

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I think what RAB is suggesting ... (I may be wrong though)

We are not talking anything difficult/fancy here. Think about it slowly and clearly....

Bees on eight/ten frames? Q/E in front. New foundation yon side to old frames. Move queen to new frames immediately, or as soon as some is drawn. Wait three weeks. Remove old frames. Job done. SIMPLE.

Only downside is that the stores will not be moved (up) as will tend to happen with a Bailey change on a tiered hive. You will have to use your imagination a bit more to get the stores shifted.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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I think what RAB is suggesting ... (I may be wrong though)

We are not talking anything difficult/fancy here. Think about it slowly and clearly....

Bees on eight/ten frames? Q/E in front. New foundation yon side to old frames. Move queen to new frames immediately, or as soon as some is drawn. Wait three weeks. Remove old frames. Job done. SIMPLE.

Only downside is that the stores will not be moved (up) as will tend to happen with a Bailey change on a tiered hive. You will have to use your imagination a bit more to get the stores shifted.
Well, nearly right then not bad for the week I've had! (but then this week I have learnt how to blow a one inch hole in eight inch thick steel using blasting gelignite, and how to demolish a brick wall using mostly curry ingredients - how cool is that!) :D
 

onriver 

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Jenkinsbrynmair - I'm not only shocked but disappointed - you really hate those Saesneg wasps, don't you! - ever considered pacifism or those Bane wasp traps rather than high explosives?????
 

Mike a 

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I have learnt how to blow a one inch hole in eight inch thick steel using blasting gelignite, and how to demolish a brick wall using mostly curry ingredients
Bit over the top for varroa control as well... :eek:
:smilielol5:
 

alanf 

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this week I have learnt how to blow a one inch hole in eight inch thick steel using blasting gelignite, and how to demolish a brick wall using mostly curry ingredients - how cool is that!) :D
Do let us know how your new hive making techniques work out.

:)
 

lesley245 

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Hi Dave,

No they didn't build bridge comb - just drone comb. The plan is to gradually move these to each side so that they are full of honey and no worker bee brood and then remove them. The drone larvae can be used to check for verroa of course.
 

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