Dead Brood

[Seanski]

Hello

Any ideas from the information and pics below what might be causing the death of about 20% of my brood?

1) About Two weeks ago I received a heathly 5 frame nuc from a neighbour
2) Immediately moved the hive to a rape seed farm 3+ miles away with 1L 2:1 rapid feeder in the super above the brood box
3) Left the hive in the field for one week, checking on it to see no damaged done but did not open the hive to look inside
4) After one week on the farm brought hive home last Sunday. Noticed that the 2:1 had hardly been touched, so gave another new batch of 1L 2:1 sugar:water. Bees seemed quiet when opened up the hive...me thinking another well behaved hive, great!
5) Last night (Wednesday so three days since brining home) opened the hive, the food hardly touched at all and a fair amount of dead brood, see attached pics. All frames lighter than they should be.
6) Queen seen and appears to still be laying.
7) Frames have both dead and alive brood side by side.

The bottom pic shows one of the dead brood on a yellow glove.

In the meantime, because the frames are very light, as confirmed by my mentor, we have filled some frames with 1:1 to give quick boost.


Any ideas, starvation or perhaps desease?

Sean

 

[Poly Hive]

Have you done a matchstick test?

Some reading here: https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/searchResults.cfm

Also consider contacting your Regional Bee Inspector.

It may just be chilled brood but, and has your friend checked his hives?

PH

 

[Seanski]

Yes, did the matchstick test and there was non sign of sticky or "gooey-ness"

 

[scuttlefish]

Yes, did the matchstick test and there was non sign of sticky or "gooey-ness"

Possibly EFB (european foul brood), the matchstick test isn't really relevant for that.

EFB is a notifiable disease so I'd get that checked out asap.

Edit: Don't panic though, I've never actually seen EFB so I'm comparing descriptions I've read to your pics...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

PM sent

 

[Meg]

Test the bees for nosema. From what I can see does not look like foulbrood. Do contact your local Inspector 'though especially if they have very little nosema.

Meg

 

[mo0g]

What did the hive smell like?

We are fortunate that we have never encountered EFB or AFB, but one of the obvious signs is that there is meant to be an unmistakeable foul smell, which is where the name came from.

 

[Seanski]

No smell that we noticed.

Thank you all for your words. I have contacted our local Bee Inspector via the NBU and will clean all instruments etc in the meantime.

Thank you!

 

[scuttlefish]

Let us know how it goes - and what the cause turns out to be!

 

[BeeJayBee]

No smell that we noticed.

Thank you all for your words. I have contacted our local Bee Inspector via the NBU and will clean all instruments etc in the meantime.

Thank you!

I'm sure you've already looked at beebase, but in case other people land on this page the NBU advice is here https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?sectionid=26

There are pictures of EFB here https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/gallery/index.cfm?galleryid=2

Good luck

 

[Rich0909]

Most likely chilled brood, you may have lost quite a few bees back to your neighbour by bringing them back within 3 miles so quickly thus not leaving enough to keep the brood warm? If you smear a couple out on a flat surface the gut should appear as a bright white line if EFB is the cause.

Rich

 

[Vincent]

I'm with Scuttlefish on this, my money's on EFB. One for the Bee Inspector though.

Having said that I am a newbie - my first post in fact - so don't take too much stock in my opinion.

FERA have been holding Disease Recognition workshops in Wales this year. I don't know if they are holding any in Surrey but I found it very useful.

 

[scuttlefish]

Anyone want to open a book?

Evens - EFB
5/4 - Chilled brood
10/1 - AFB

Any other runners?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Sac brood can look like something more serious but it is not nearly so bad. Are there slippers in there? If the colony was not a huge one and moved from a nuc into a full-sized hive then chilling is possible. More likely around the periphery of the brood nest maybe?
Moving the colony around as you have done is not ideal. If some bees got lost, then that would raise the risk of chilled brood too.
What was the brood pattern like when you got it? What does the beebase map say about diseases nearby? Has you association or FERA sent out any disease warnings? Has the nuc been treated with any varroa remedies as there may be a vectored virus that's causing problems?

 

[Skyhook]

Anyone want to open a book?

Evens - EFB
5/4 - Chilled brood
10/1 - AFB

Any other runners?

I'll put a virtual fiver on EFB. No more than that as Meg disagrees.

 

[chickendave]

I'll put a virtual fiver on EFB. No more than that as Meg disagrees.

I'll go with meg as well as she's are SBI

 

[mbc]

My monies on Heebeegee, its sacbrood for sure, "slippers" are visible in the photo's and there's even a little bag of puss on a marrigold.
Either requeen, or it sometimes goes away of its own accord, especially if the foraging improves.

 

[Seanski]

Sac brood can look like something more serious but it is not nearly so bad. Are there slippers in there? If the colony was not a huge one and moved from a nuc into a full-sized hive then chilling is possible. More likely around the periphery of the brood nest maybe?
Moving the colony around as you have done is not ideal. If some bees got lost, then that would raise the risk of chilled brood too.
What was the brood pattern like when you got it? What does the beebase map say about diseases nearby? Has you association or FERA sent out any disease warnings? Has the nuc been treated with any varroa remedies as there may be a vectored virus that's causing problems?

The brood patern looked good before moving the hive.
It's been chilly here during the night and of course raining all the time AND it was a small hive to start off with. The rapid feeder was hardly touched so perhaps it is "just" chilled brood. I think this sounds like a real possibility, in my inexperienced and humble opinion.
I am not aware of any desease warnings in the area and thus far I've not treated with any verroa remedies.

Anyway the inspector will be around this evening to inspect so should know more then. Will post details tomorrow.

 

[Seanski]

what are slippers?

 

[mbc]

what are slippers?

The larvae die orientated with their head outwards and as the body of the larvae decompose into a horrible little bag of puss the head end curls up into an ugly discoloured slipper.
Larvae that die of EFB tend to be contorted sideways in their cell.

edit: they're called slippers because of their passing resemblance to the shape of a chinese slipper