Dead Brood

[alanf]

The South East Inspectors said there has been a lot of sacbrood about this year. They put it down to the weather conditions. In a normal year, a strong hive will be able to dispose of infected larvae and dump them away from the hive. This year there have been several periods when they have been unable to get out. The infected larvae stay longer in the cells, the virus multiplies and the sac of decomposed larva bursts spreading millions of particles inside the hive and potentially infecting the next generation.

 

[Meg]

I would agree that some of the dead look like sac brood, but many of the dodgy cells were larvae and therefore not sacbrood which only shows up after the larvae are sealed - they cannot pupate and so leave a fluid filled sac. The larvae look far too disintegrated and just decaying for sac brood in my opinion - hence I look for another cause. Again, as larvae therefore not AFB and not right for EFB either. My experience suggests nosema - larvae dying - very 'calm' bees - not taking down feed even 'though they obviously need it. All point to something other than a basic brood disease.

I will be intrigued to know what the local Inspector says.

Meg

 

[Seanski]

The inspector looked at the bees last night and said that it was a bad case of sac brood. Prognosis for this hive is not good as it is a small hive so will try to requeen and see how it goes. Thankfully our other hive is healthy and going great guns.

Thanks to all for your valuable advice.

Best,
Seanski

 

[VEG]

did they recommend a shook swarm?

 

[Poly Hive]

Thanks Meg.

PH

 

[Luminos]

Thanks for posting this, Seanski, it's helpful to newbies.

 

[mbc]

The inspector looked at the bees last night and said that it was a bad case of sac brood. Prognosis for this hive is not good as it is a small hive so will try to requeen and see how it goes. Thankfully our other hive is healthy and going great guns.

Thanks to all for your valuable advice.

Best,
Seanski

So Heebeegeebee was right, I thought so too from the pictures. Commiserations to all the advice mongers who only caused undue worry and concern, its always risky giving remote diagnoses.

 

[susbees]

did they recommend a shook swarm?

Why? Requeening works (or did for me) and disposal (by burning - well I did) of worst affected frames.

Mine was due to unbalancing a hive population by taking too many house bees for apideas for the bee improvement group last season.

 

[scuttlefish]

So Heebeegeebee was right, I thought so too from the pictures. Commiserations to all the advice mongers who only caused undue worry and concern, its always risky giving remote diagnoses.

I did say I didn't know what I was talking about...!

 

[Seanski]

did they recommend a shook swarm?

I don't think a shook swam was mentioned by the inspector but my mentor did. It was suggested that I could take some brood frames from my healthly hive and put them into the sac brood hive, although just another option.

I preferred the requeen option as it seems to be a process that has worked before and quite well documented and I get my first experience in re-queening.

 

[alanf]

Sacbrood treatment was asked about with the RBI who said there is nothing proven effective. As I recall the conversation he said that some older books and articles recommend requeening. However, there is little evidence as to why it might work if it was tried; it could be that requeening usually involves a brood break and adjustment of the population age spread that has more effect than the new queen herself. Most colonies recover without specific intervention just as readily as those which are requeened as long as they are otherwise healthy and the beekeeper follows hygienic practice.

This is reported as I recall it, and presumably reflects the current NBU thinking. I couldn't claim to know any more than we were told other than having been shown some brood and the diagnosis of sacbrood. As previously mentioned, the basic diagnostic is to pull infected and discoloured larvae out of the cells with medical tweezers. The inspector generally looks for a white gut that indicates EFB at that stage of development. Spreading the larva on a hive tool can make it clearer whether that is present or not. A loose sac of pus without EFB symptoms is likely to be sacbrood.

 

[mbc]

Re queening is recommended for various stress maladies, chalk brood, sac brood, even EFB in some countries, and the modus operandi of the cure is simply that you'd usually re queen with a vigorous young queen who lays large eggs which subsequently become vigorous healthy larvae capable of warding off various infections and reaching maturity.

 

[scuttlefish]

Re queening is recommended for various stress maladies, chalk brood, sac brood, even EFB in some countries, and the modus operandi of the cure is simply that you'd usually re queen with a vigorous young queen who lays large eggs which subsequently become vigorous healthy larvae capable of warding off various infections and reaching maturity.

Apart from the obvious (AFB, Varroa/Acarine infestation), are there any other diseases where re-queening would not be an appropriate response?

 

[mbc]

Apart from the obvious (AFB, Varroa/Acarine infestation), are there any other diseases where re-queening would not be an appropriate response?

I think re-queening with an acarine resistant strain would be an appropriate response if it was done while there were still enough healthy nurse bees to raise a new generation.
My attitude to most of the other diseases, especially the viral ones, is to let nature sort them out and eliminate the susceptible ones, I suppose this is simular to re-queening in that the susceptible genetics are dropped.
Obviously AFB and EFB need a more considered approach as to making sure any infective material is disposed of effectively.

 

[user 6228]

Apart from the obvious (AFB, Varroa/Acarine infestation), are there any other diseases where re-queening would not be an appropriate response?

so if in doubt kill the queen?

seems a bit procrustean for a viral infection of the brood.

A brood laying break and removal of the internals of the hive plus a disinfection, i can understand as a simple following the doctrines of Pasteur and Lister.

However, the logic of going straight to assuming it must be a genetic weakness in the colony , without deternining that infection is a recurring one in that colony , is not obvious to me.

Can someone tell me why the rule appears to be any infection kill the queen?

 

[scuttlefish]

so if in doubt kill the queen?

Hardly, I had it in mind as more of a last resort...

 

[user 6228]

Hardly, I had it in mind as more of a last resort...

Didnt mean it to be taken as you personally ...
it was more a rhetorical question addressed at the world of beekeeping

 

[scuttlefish]

Didnt mean it to be taken as you personally ...
it was more a rhetorical question addressed at the world of beekeeping

Oops, my bad...