Dead bees

[yeoldgit]

One of my hives in October had a pile of dead bees on the ground outside which was a surprise as they seemed to be doing ok up to that point,however, after removing the entrance block yesterday I discovered a pile of dead bees covering the OMF. My other hive is fine. They both have a good amount of stores but the bees were bought from different sources earlier this year. Any advice on what to do now and the future would be appreciated.
Ross

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nothing much you can do - sounds like you may have a deadout - do you know whether there are still live bees in there? if you are unsure, I would be tempted to just crack the crownboard and have a peek down the seams to check.
How much autumn feed did you give them?
When did you treat for varroa? and with what?

 

[Amari]

When I find 'sudden death syndrome' like you describe, it usually is due to CBPV - chronic bee paralysis virus - but in mid summer in my experience. Any surviving bees can be seen to be 'trembling' on the frames and landing board and their bodies are shiny and black. I had four colonies afflicted this year.

 

[yeoldgit]

Nothing much you can do - sounds like you may have a deadout - do you know whether there are still live bees in there? if you are unsure, I would be tempted to just crack the crownboard and have a peek down the seams to check.
How much autumn feed did you give them?
When did you treat for varroa? and with what?

yes live bees in there, not sure how many will check under the crown board later. The hive is heavy with stores. Treated with Api-Guard 2 x 2 week late August.

 

[yeoldgit]

When I find 'sudden death syndrome' like you describe, it usually is due to CBPV - chronic bee paralysis virus - but in mid summer in my experience. Any surviving bees can be seen to be 'trembling' on the frames and landing board and their bodies are shiny and black. I had four colonies afflicted this year.

Think it could be CBPV. If they die out over winter could the brood frames be frozen to reuse or would you remove combs and boil frames in caustic soda?

 

[yeoldgit]

Think it could be CBPV. If they die out over winter could the brood frames be frozen to reuse or would you remove combs and boil frames in caustic soda?

Meant soda crystals

 

[The Stung]

I've just had a similar experience: one treated hive appeared to be doing well, plenty of stores and bees and brood. Then many bees started falling to the floor around the hive, a few days later a small swarm left and took up residence on a neighbour's roof before I could collect them, and two weeks later the original hive appears to be dead. I'm going to go in and check in a few days when I'm off work.


The colony did appear to have CBPV in May when they arrived, as well as a varroa bomb which caused a short brood break, but they appeared to have made a recovery and were split in late July for swarm control and easily filled a 12x14 with stores and brood. Fortunately the smaller split is still doing well. I'm guessing the failing colony tried to supercede the old queen and failed. I'll go in and check for life in a few days when I'm off work...maybe I can rescue some comb or maybe they will surprise me with their resilience again.

Just like the OP asked, any advice about how to treat/use the stores or comb would be appreciated.

 

[drex]

You've done All you can. Treated for varroa and stores are OK, ( and they can reach them - no QX)?.

I would leave them to it. Some hives ar better at removing the dead than others.

if a dead out in spring, and any doubt about disease, I would start afresh with everything sterilised and fresh foundation/comb

 

[blackcloud]

Id start afresh with clean kit and new wax used to split the other hive in spring.
If it was nothing of your own doing then they were of weak stock and natures having a clearout.

 

[yeoldgit]

Thanks for all your replies will make a split or two if I can in the spring

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve had CBPV in three colonies over the last 10 years. I’d burn all the frames and start again. There is opinion here that frames are ok but having talked to a virologist au fait with the syndrome who’s advice was that we just don’t know how safe that is I threw all mine away.

 

[Amari]

Think it could be CBPV. If they die out over winter could the brood frames be frozen to reuse or would you remove combs and boil frames in caustic soda?

When I had four colonies affected this summer I**** called the bee inspector who visited and confirmed the diagnosis. He, and I think it was Dani on here, advised removing the floors from each hive so that the dead and dying bees could fall to the ground.
All the colonies survived initially but three were then decimated by wasps. I have destroyed those frames and combs. The fourth colony remains strong.
***** actually it was my two good beekeeping mates in the village (both occasional visitors to this forum) who called the SBI - I was on the Galapagos!!

 

[Swarm]

One of my hives in October had a pile of dead bees on the ground outside which was a surprise as they seemed to be doing ok up to that point,however, after removing the entrance block yesterday I discovered a pile of dead bees covering the OMF. My other hive is fine. They both have a good amount of stores but the bees were bought from different sources earlier this year. Any advice on what to do now and the future would be appreciated.
Ross

Change your bees.
If they are still viable next year, requeen them, preferably using the stock in your other hive.

 

[The Stung]

I'm not the OP, but I wanted to give an update about the hive I suspected had died off last year following disease and then a late swarm. Today was the first day it's been warm enough to open the hive up for a quick peek, although there was still snow on the ground so I didn't risk pulling up the frames for a closer look yet.

The bees are alive and in good numbers, but I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at right now. The colony appears to have split into two separate clusters, one on the back three 14*12 frames and one on the front three. The middle five frames are empty and the wax seems to have been partially removed to build up the outer frames where the bees have decided to cluster. At some point some of the stores from these middle frames leaked to the hive floor. Judging by the inspection tray brood-rearing hasn't started up yet, but the bees look to be behaving normally on the frames. They both look like clusters and not returning bees or robbers. I have a mouse/wasp excluder on the entrance and the hives are insulated with some ventilation through the floor. The hive seems dry and not damp.

As a comparison the smaller split I mentioned is in an identical hive on the same site. It is following the textbooks and is now a single 5-frame cluster near the entrance with brood-rearing having recently started on 2 frames and bees returning with pollen.

Any ideas what I could be looking at with the first hive? I thought that in mother/daughter supercedures the two co-exist for a while on the same frames, not separate ones. Plus I'm expecting the old queen swarmed. Could it be two new queens because poor weather prevented swarming in December? Should I be moving one cluster into a spare nuc box now to prevent swarming/fighting etc until I know if either is viable?

I've added a small amount of fondant for now to make up for the lost stores. Any advice welcome.