Cut Comb Frame Size SN1 or Manley

[Portsoy]

Hi

What size of frame is used for 8oz blocks of cut comb
from Heather?

This is for next year, will be using thin unwired foundation but not sure of the frame to use in National either SN1 or Manley

Thanks

Karl

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi

What size of frame is used for 8oz blocks of cut comb
from Heather?

This is for next year, will be using thin unwired foundation but not sure of the frame to use in National either SN1 or Manley

Thanks

Karl

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

for cut comb i use manley's with starter strips, no idea about heather though, as I no idea what she like to eat

 

[itma]

There was an article in BBKA News this year suggesting getting the comb drawn on an earlier crop, and then extracting --- carefully, and for Manleys without wired foundation, definitely radially --- before the heather season.
Don't have heather here, but I gather the problem being addressed was the difficulty of getting the comb drawn and filled in the relatively short heather season.

Manleys are often chosen because the frame can be nicely evenly filled, top to bottom and edge to edge -- so all your cuttings are about the same thickness.



One important point is to distinguish between "cut comb" where the frame's comb is chopped up into smaller pieces of comb, and "sections" (which you might be meaning by "blocks") each in their own mini frame - requiring some specialist (different) kit. Best to see Thornes catalogue for the different ways of doing sections.
Cut comb is massively simpler. Especially with a purpose-made cutter and packaging.

 

[m100]

Manleys are often chosen because the frame can be nicely evenly filled, top to bottom and edge to edge -- so all your cuttings are about the same thickness.

and, in my experience, about 10mm deeper than the commonly available cut comb containers.

 

[itma]

and, in my experience, about 10mm deeper than the commonly available cut comb containers.

Have you really had that problem with the 40mm tall "crystal" ones ?

 

[Rob55]

I found problems this year with drawing out a full box of manleys from foundation, the bees made a right mess of it and built comb between the frames and a lot of very uneven depth cells. I know you "ideally" intersperse new foundation with old, but that's not always possible.

 

[m100]

Have you really had that problem with the 40mm tall "crystal" ones ?

Yes, and even worse I only found out after a few pieces were already in the box, I ended up tipping it out onto a stainless tray and hacking the bottom off the comb. I put it down to propolis on the frame shoulders and some adjacent frames that were drawn out slightly less.

In my opinion the boxes should have been at least 42mm internal size with an additional allowance for clearance over the top of the comb, maybe 45mm or a bit more to reduce the possibility of cappings damage during transport.

The lack of label space on the new crystal boxes is a problem though with the honeycomb and bee symbol on the top, the ribbed sides, the manufacturers name on the bottom, plus the fact they don't fit the old 4C cardboard sleeves and no one thought to commission an alternative packing sleeve.

 

[itma]

Manleys are often chosen because the frame can be nicely evenly filled, top to bottom and edge to edge -- so all your cuttings are about the same thickness.

and, in my experience, about 10mm deeper than the commonly available cut comb containers.

Have you really had that problem with the 40mm tall "crystal" ones ?

Yes, and even worse I only found out after a few pieces were already in the box, I ended up tipping it out onto a stainless tray and hacking the bottom off the comb. I put it down to propolis on the frame shoulders and some adjacent frames that were drawn out slightly less.

In my opinion the boxes should have been at least 42mm internal size with an additional allowance for clearance over the top of the comb, maybe 45mm or a bit more to reduce the possibility of cappings damage during transport.

Errrr.
Something wrong there somewhere.

How wide is a Manley sidebar?
Thornes National Manley is ...... 40mm wide ... !

So, allowing a beespace less than that between combs, the comb would be less than 40mm thick ...
However you are claiming that your combs are 50mm thick (to be 10mm too fat for these boxes).


How can you be producing 500mm thick comb on a 40mm frame spacing?
This has to be either or mistaken misuse of the Manleys ...

EITHER
- you are throwing the odd Manley into a box of other frames (they are intended to be used butted up against one another, self-spacing) and using them at heaven knows what spacing (castellated 9 to a box?)
OR
- your combs are very unevenly drawn from one frame to the next, which is going to give you problems anyway with very different product weights from pack to pack. (50mm on one frame would imply less than 25mm thick on the adjacent frames)

Just how can you be getting combs that are actually fatter than the frame-to-frame spacing?

The lack of label space on the new crystal boxes is a problem though with the honeycomb and bee symbol on the top, the ribbed sides, the manufacturers name on the bottom, plus the fact they don't fit the old 4C cardboard sleeves and no one thought to commission an alternative packing sleeve.

I'd like to see a cardboard sleeve to fit the new pack, but I think the new one is a massive improvement on the old and, although I haven't used these labels myself (probably "yet"), but I'd draw your attention to this comment on the Thornes website page for the 'crystal' containers -

The 'See The Honey' (STH) labels are made to fit these containers.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Errrr.
Something wrong there somewhere.

How wide is a Manley sidebar?
Thornes National Manley is ...... 40mm wide ... !

So, allowing a beespace less than that between combs, the comb would be less than 40mm thick ...
However you are claiming that your combs are 50mm thick (to be 10mm too fat for these boxes).


How can you be producing 500mm thick comb on a 40mm frame spacing?
This has to be either or mistaken misuse of the Manleys ...

EITHER
- you are throwing the odd Manley into a box of other frames (they are intended to be used butted up against one another, self-spacing) and using them at heaven knows what spacing (castellated 9 to a box?)
OR
- your combs are very unevenly drawn from one frame to the next, which is going to give you problems anyway with very different product weights from pack to pack. (50mm on one frame would imply less than 25mm thick on the adjacent frames)

Just how can you be getting combs that are actually fatter than the frame-to-frame spacing?





I'd like to see a cardboard sleeve to fit the new pack, but I think the new one is a massive improvement on the old and, although I haven't used these labels myself (probably "yet"), but I'd draw your attention to this comment on the Thornes website page for the 'crystal' containers -

I had looked at the catalogue and saw these containers and labels. Thinking of getting them for next year. Labels I thought were a bit expensive.
I had a frame or two this year of foundationless comb for cutting, the bees,doing their own thing, had drawn it out to beyond the frame so that it stood proud by a few millimeters.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I used both Manleys and SN1 frames thiyear for my wireless foundation - both worked beautifully (the SN1 comb winning 1st in the Gower show - I'm still using theold boxes though, seem to work for me (and you have to use them for honey shows)

 

[m100]

Just how can you be getting combs that are actually fatter than the frame-to-frame spacing?

New frames, all new fresh foundation, warmed with hairdryer to remove any bloom.

No castellations (never ever use them), all 10 frames butted up close

Frame 1 and 3 not drawn

Frame 2 drawn to leave 1 bee space between comb and foundation in frames 1 and 3 = 80 -8 -8 = circa 64mm comb

It was not quite as extreme as that but I had a few cases of 50mm thick comb and a lot that was at or above 40mm

A few years ago I've also experienced swarms ignoring fresh brood frame foundation in hoffmans and on a big flow have instead drawn full width and full depth comb off the edge of the top bars.

The 'See The Honey' (STH) labels are made to fit these containers.

Maybe they do but at 40mm x 29mm those labels are really cramped.