creatting wild bee hive

[Oandy]

Pargyle No tom sauce just mustard. Strange how most of us are meat eaters and we are the the ones he sees as being beneath him. The Fool knows nothing about beekeeping and proceeds to preach to us. I care more for my soda crystals that cleans my Hive tool than i care about him. Thats after i have used it going to through it out.

 

[Excession]

Because it is an argument which is born out of rank ignorance.
By all means hold your beliefs and even think to yourself you have some sort of moral superiority, but you lose any high ground as soon as you try and impose your twisted values on others.
You're welcome

Boom.

 

[user 6228]

Hey,
This guy may have views and beliefs you disagree with but he wants to help bees. Put your own predjudices away and try to help him do right by bees.
What goes on in his head is irrelevent, its what hes going to DO that is relevent to bees.
The way this thread is going you would think he grew almonds dunked in neonics.

Derek

 

[Luminos]

Hey,
This guy may have views and beliefs you disagree with but he wants to help bees. Put your own predjudices away and try to help him do right by bees.
What goes on in his head is irrelevent, its what hes going to DO that is relevent to bees.
The way this thread is going you would think he grew almonds dunked in neonics.

Derek

Speaking for myself, I have no prejudice; I have three vegan friends, none of whom take the view that they "have the moral high ground" over those who aren't vegan.
The OP mentioned quite early on the practise of smoking bees/AI (II)/killing queens/feeding inferior product - this does not sound like someone innocently enquiring about honeybees.
I stand by my accusation:

 

[Teemore]

For most beekeepers in the UK, honeybees are NOT farmed. If you have seen footage of industrial beekeeping in America, it bears no resemblance to beekeeping in these islands. Honeybees are not fully domesticated and in time you will learn that beekeeping is about working with bees and not coercing them!
If you want a "Wild" bee hive I would strongly encourage you to look at how you can support the various native species of Bumble bees and solitary bees etc rather than deliberately introducing an unmanaged colony of honeybees into an allotment environment. Without prompting an argument, bumble bees are perhaps more threatened than honey bees.
In view of the threat to honeybee colonies from the spectrum of parasitic mites which act as vectors for viral infections and the miriad other bacterial, fungal and microsporidial infections they can fall prey to, I am firmly of the view that there is an obligation on all beekeepers to manage their hives, to support and protect the bees in their care in as far as is possible. In other words to provide a standard of husbandry; to be a beekeeper.
Honeybees can and do succumb to diseases. To fail to identify and deal with those is irresponsible and to my mind, wrong. It would be difficult if not impossible to manage disease in a fully "wild" hive set up by an individual and the sorts of disease I am thinking of can persist for 25+ years! It is possible that deliberately setting up a wild/unmanged hive would fall foul of elements of legislation relating to beekeeping in the UK.
You already seem to have a knowledge of elements of beekeeping and may have already come across beekeeping in top-bar hives: perhaps this is a form of beekeeping that is more in line with your principles and one that you could manage thoughtfully and considerately.

 

[thorn]

This zealot shows the signs that make many people hold his type in contempt, ignorance, arrogance and a total unwillingness to listen to the advice he's given unless it accords with his prejudices. He came on the forum ostensibly to seek our advice, and in next to no time starts attacking us.

I've no axe to grind with vegans, cyclists, the religious or anyone else with strongly held principles, but I am intolerant of those who consider that their principles give them " the moral high ground".

 

[Teemore]

The OP asked a few questions which I'll try to answer in addition to my initial response.

• 
  my plan was to dig a hole in an embankment and plant a nest structure in it then rebury it. i had some bumblebees last year which did this. why is this not practical?

It is rather unusual to come across honeybee nests in the ground - as noted elsewhere, they tend to prefer a nest site that is more elevated. If you want a nest in the ground, look towards encouraging bumblebees into your allotment environment.

• what do bee keepers do to prevent disease?

They maintain apiary hygiene which may variously include apiary or hive quarantine, they clean and sterilise their equipment, they isolate swarms from 'unknown' sources to ensure they are not carrying any of the serious/notifiable diseases. They endeavour to control mite numbers. They practice good husbandry.

• don't bee keepers end up with hostile swarms due to hives losing the queen?

I am not sure you have grasped the full mechanics of swarming. This is a generalisation but a colony does not swarm because it loses its Queen. It will only swarm if it has a queen and it is in a position wherein it has determined that it is likely that the colony can reproduce by swarming and there is a good chance that condidtions are viable for that new colony to survive. I'll qualify that last statement by acknowledging that a colony may swarm due to disease or starvation.

 

[For want of a better word]

You already seem to have a knowledge of elements of beekeeping and may have already come across beekeeping in top-bar hives: perhaps this is a form of beekeeping that is more in line with your principles and one that you could manage thoughtfully and considerately.

Discussed this topic with an acquaintance who so happens to be an obligate vegetable eater over a bowl of lentil soup... she finds beekeeping abhorrent and will not even put up bumblebee nest boxes in her wildly overgrown ( permaculture) garden. She will not even feed the wild birds, or tread on a snail.
ANY form of management or as she puts it interference.......
You already seem to have a knowledge of elements of beekeeping and may have already come across beekeeping in top-bar hives: perhaps this is a form of beekeeping that is more in line with your principles and one that you could manage thoughtfully and considerately.
...... in the natural way of things this is in her opinion total wrong... a top bar hive may appear a bit cranky or too floaty skirt for the mainstream beekeeper, but to our vegan friend this would be farming.. certainly far from natural !

My obligate vegetable eater has a very simple lifestyle.... I do not believe that it is driven by any religious ideal... just likes and dislikes!

I find it hard to understand why an obligate vegetable eater would want to keep any animal and would tend to agree that the postee already has all the answers and has come onto this forum to instigate a battle of words

 

[BeeJayBee]

I find it hard to understand why an obligate vegetable eater would want to keep any animal and would tend to agree that the postee already has all the answers and has come onto this forum to instigate a battle of words

Exactly!

Light blue touchpaper, and retire to watch the fun!

 

[madasafish]

It's well known that man 's diet of meat helped develop his higher brain functions. Note the word "helped".. if it was responsible for it then tigers would be more intelligent than humans.

Err...

 

[For want of a better word]

It's well known that man 's diet of meat helped develop his higher brain functions. Note the word "helped".. if it was responsible for it then tigers would be more intelligent than humans.

Err...

Were the Neanderthals vegan ?

Did they die out

How is ELVIS anyway?

 

[Teemore]

It's well known that man 's diet of meat helped develop his higher brain functions. Note the word "helped".. if it was responsible for it then tigers would be more intelligent than humans.

Err...

Does it work the other way too? ......

(You know I only jest!!)

 

[Luminos]

You already seem to have a knowledge of elements of beekeeping and may have already come across beekeeping in top-bar hives: perhaps this is a form of beekeeping that is more in line with your principles and one that you could manage thoughtfully and considerately.

Discussed this topic with an acquaintance who so happens to be an obligate vegetable eater over a bowl of lentil soup... she finds beekeeping abhorrent and will not even put up bumblebee nest boxes in her wildly overgrown ( permaculture) garden. She will not even feed the wild birds, or tread on a snail.
ANY form of management or as she puts it interference.......
You already seem to have a knowledge of elements of beekeeping and may have already come across beekeeping in top-bar hives: perhaps this is a form of beekeeping that is more in line with your principles and one that you could manage thoughtfully and considerately.
...... in the natural way of things this is in her opinion total wrong... a top bar hive may appear a bit cranky or too floaty skirt for the mainstream beekeeper, but to our vegan friend this would be farming.. certainly far from natural !

My obligate vegetable eater has a very simple lifestyle.... I do not believe that it is driven by any religious ideal... just likes and dislikes!

I find it hard to understand why an obligate vegetable eater would want to keep any animal and would tend to agree that the postee already has all the answers and has come onto this forum to instigate a battle of words

She has a point about not treading on snails - it really messes them up for eating...

 

[Easy Beesy]

H
Bumble bees do make honey but colonies die out come winter leaving hibernating new queens for the next season, therefore do not make/need to put surplus stocks aside.

Bumble bees do not make honey. They put a little pellet of pollen/nectar in a wax pot and the queen lays an egg on it. And just to be clear, neither do solitary bees. Honey bees make honey.

 

[Polyanwood]

H
Bumble bees do make honey but colonies die out come winter leaving hibernating new queens for the next season, therefore do not make/need to put surplus stocks aside.

Bumble bees do not make honey. They put a little pellet of pollen/nectar in a wax pot and the queen lays an egg on it. And just to be clear, neither do solitary bees. Honey bees make honey.

Don't sources say they make a little?

Do you get honey from a bumblebee nest, and if so how much?

In the UK the biggest nests are built by Bombus terrestris and according to Sladen in his book even the biggest nests never contain more than a few ounces. In one B. lapidarius nest that he reared in a nest box he took over four ounces of honey and the nest still survived. So yes, in theory we can get honey from bumblebees as it is made by the same method as hive bee honey, but the quantity is so small that it would never be commercially viable to do so. Also, I believes, that it is thinner and more watery the honey bee honey, so ferments more easily. One average sized bumblebee making about ten foraging flights a day would bring back enough nectar to make about 3 ml of honey. But to recover the honey you would have to break into the nest, destroy the honey pot during extraction and probably destroy eggs and young in the process. Bumblebees nests are not neat organised affairs like honey bees nests, they are rather untidy and disorganised.

To make a one pound jar of honey the honeybees must visit and suck nectar from about 3 000 000 flowers of red clover or 2 000 000 flowers of vetch. Think of all that work next time you spread it on your toast!

 

[Russel]

Easy Beesy you may want to point that out to the Bumblebee conservation and bumblebee.org as they're under the impression the BB's do make honey but not in commercially viable quantities.

Maybe I should have said " It's honey Jim but not as we know it"

Thank you Polyanwood for posting the bit I omitted!

Russ

 

[straightman21]

Internet Troll:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And spent most of last evening just monitoring this thread to see what was happening - no sign of him now though. - pretty obvious what this one is -

 

[radged]

Originally Posted by radged
i think i've got the moral highground

In your opinion

Originally Posted by radged
how is this not the moral high ground?

Because it is just your view

it is a view which is demonstrable and which has been demonstrated here. you kill queens, steal honey, smoke and chemically treat bees, inseminate them, treat them as products for sale as tho you own them. mad.

Originally Posted by radged
how is this not the moral high ground?

Because it is an argument which is born out of rank ignorance.

i know enough about bee keeping to make my mind up. so do you.

As an aside what I eat is my choice. I would never criticise your choice....nuff said!

this is childish. we constantly judge each other about what we do. would it be ok if i barbequed and ate your dog?

the problem here is that no one has ever questioned your right to keep bees and now i'm doing it. you've swarmed. the only argument that has any weight at all is the one that says without people bees would die of disease. well, for millenia they didn;t so let them get on with it. you don't *need* honey, you *want* it and for that you farm the bees. they'd be better off without you and you would be better off without farming them.

And spent most of last evening just monitoring this thread to see what was happening - no sign of him now though. - pretty obvious what this one is -

am totally on topic so try not to be so smug.

 

[Luminos]

Told you so...