comb drawing question

[Cuckmere couple]

a couple of my hives seem a little congested with capped stores, plus, i need to swap out some old comb in one of them

they seem very busy in 15 degree temps and the OSR is starting to bloom all around us

i only have a few spare frames of drawn brood comb and am wanting to split some nucs so was hoping to keep that for those

is now an ok time to introduce undrawn foundation in the place of frames of stores or should i wait?

would i feed if i do etc?

 

[Murox]

Well you need flow or syrup and warmth for them to draw wax. If you want to split "SOME" nucs and you want a honey crop then you will probably need more than one brood box full of bees per hive. Perhaps you should read up on brood (box) manipulations, there are various ways of achieving things.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks M

yes....i have been immersing myself in brood box manipulations etc and aiming for double before trying to develop some nucs inc demaree method etc

complex subject i know, but slowly getting my head around what i need to do (with support from here of course)

for this thread, i know that wherever i end up doing the above, ill need more drawn comb and currently i only have 1 bb of drawn comb plus probably 2 bb of sealed stores now

so, in addition to some judicious 'bruising' (will keep v much on cautious side) i need to start either adding some frames of drawn or undrawn - as spring flow is about to start its probably a mixture

hard to know which hives to use which in at my stage of learning....

 

[Murox]

Ignoring any dogma this link does have some pertinent info http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Comb-Management-WBKA-WAG.pdf
The place to put an undrawn frame in the brood box is basically each side next to the brood nest. So with 11 frames it would be something like H H&P E B B B B B E H&P H where E=undrawn frame, H=honey H&P=honey and pollen.
Of course bees will only draw comb when they need space - for honey&stores or brood.
If your single brood box is bursting with bees and you want a second brood box you could just move a few brood frames up into one, keep it cosy with dummy boards or honey and put more than one or two empty frames in the lower box. You'll end up with 2xBB then QX if wanted then supers as needed. I see you are in Sussex and that rape is about to happen so you will need to provide some room for that anyway.
Or, you could just nadir either a super or whole brood box (bees build down).
I am sure someone else will come up with other alternatives.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

very helpful Murox

i was just about to start looking at best way to double bb

my plan was to do this before demaree'ing so that i demaree with a strong colony

so...the additional box goes below but the BIA and capped all stays above and the undrawn goes down?

 

[masterBK]

The problem with putting frames of foundation on the edge of a brood nest in spring and early summer is that the bees may well draw it out with drone cells.

 

[Ian123]

Hi Brood box above for me but suspect it makes little odds i just figure heat rises. I added several boxes yesterday and simply removed from the original box a frame of mainly sealed brood, emerging if you can find it. Added a frame of foundation up against the brood nest and placed the frame containing the sealed brood directly above the center of the brood nest in the new box. On my next inspection i would expect to find that the queen has made a visit up and laid in the vacated cells and the bees have drawn at least the face of foundation up against the comb of brood. Obviously depends on weather and numbers of bees. If you are intending on drawing off nucs from some later its important to let them build to a point you are not knocking the donor hive back, or they are at a point that they have the numbers to take the hit and recover quickly. Dont be afraid to keep the feed bucket on if you want them to expand faster and draw comb, the point being the feeds available even if the weather turns wet/poor. Its little and often with the syrup even if its a jam jar full. Your not a million miles from me and mine have been drawing and build comb for weeks now

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If OSR is starting to bloom, you won't need to feed!
If your bees need double brood boxes, then you can do that (I put brood above each other in the two boxes with foundation/stores either side). With OSR they might fill the frames with that honey of course. If you stole a frame of sealed stores for later and put a frame of foundation in, next to the brood nest, that would work too. OR depending on how many frames of brood you have, and the nature of the bee you could just ride the OSR wave and add supers and see how much honey you get!

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks all

going to have a think about best way!!

 

[Hachi]

The problem with putting frames of foundation on the edge of a brood nest in spring and early summer is that the bees may well draw it out with drone cells.

So where do you put yours?

 

[Swarm]

I use colonies for honey and others for comb drawing, put the deep on top and move combs when drawn.

 

[masterBK]

So where do you put yours?
I demaree my colonies in May most years so bottom BC with the queen gets it. Alternatively I might use bailey comb change in spring so top BC gets it (and bees fed syrup). I only use colonies I know that draw foundation out well. I don't get many swarms (because I demaree) but from experience I can say swarms usually do a good job of drawing foundation. In august having removed the supers I add a BC of frames of foundation and feed (cheaper to get them to draw foundation using sugar syrup than honey). They then can go into winter on nice clean comb. Also bees don't tend to build drone comb after end of july in Yorkshire

 

[Cuckmere couple]

masterB

i like the rationale of drawing comb in late august...seems to make sense

 

[Ian123]

Mb is correct they will draw plenty of comb in the autumn but don’t over think it, I’ve never put a box of foundation on and then thought oh my god it’s ruined they’ve drawn to much of it as drone. Maybe you get the odd patch if the foundation has any imperfections but it’s all worker based and generally they stick well to it

 

[Hachi]

So where do you put yours?
I demaree my colonies in May most years so bottom BC with the queen gets it. Alternatively I might use bailey comb change in spring so top BC gets it (and bees fed syrup). I only use colonies I know that draw foundation out well. I don't get many swarms (because I demaree) but from experience I can say swarms usually do a good job of drawing foundation. In august having removed the supers I add a BC of frames of foundation and feed (cheaper to get them to draw foundation using sugar syrup than honey). They then can go into winter on nice clean comb. Also bees don't tend to build drone comb after end of july in Yorkshire

Excellent thanks