Clustering -- exactly how?

[ShinySideUp]

I appreciate the concept of a cluster and it has been likened to the way penguins cluster in bad weather with colder animals moving in and other animals moving out, so far so good, but bees have frames in the way so how do they actually form a cluster which is more than two-dimensional? I don't see how the queen can get in the middle as when looked at in three dimensions there is no middle per se unless the frame material is taken into account.

Do they cluster as if the frames weren't there and take the heat through the frames or are there several separate clusters on either side of the frames?

 

[oliver90owner]

The queen will be in the middle-ish, because the workers will cluster around her and move her around as necessary. They are well practised at it Bees can readily move over the frames in a warm hive, but not so easily under. Another plus for well insulated hives with no top ventilation.

 

[madasafish]

The queen will be in the middle-ish, because the workers will cluster around her and move her around as necessary. They are well practised at it Bees can readily move over the frames in a warm hive, but not so easily under. Another plus for well insulated hives with no top ventilation.

Which is what I see through clear CBs on all my (insulated/poly) hives in winter.

 

[Finman]

Do they cluster as if the frames weren't there and take the heat through the frames or are there several separate clusters on either side of the frames?

IT is one ball between combs, like a cake.
Part of bees go into empty cells. Then cluster is tight.

Im cold long periods , -20C and during one month, in some seam food will be finish, and bees die in the seam. On cold hive they cannot go to around the frame.

During warm winterdays the cluster reformulate.

But you do not have such cold weathers on your level.

Yesterday I looked one hive. Temp was +4C. There was very tight cluster, because wind was strong.

 

[bontbee]

I appreciate the concept of a cluster and it has been likened to the way penguins cluster in bad weather with colder animals moving in and other animals moving out...

I always thought that this was how it worked, but I have since been told that the older bees form a "mantle" around the cluster. So, if they drop off and die, it's not as great a loss to the future of the colony as it would be if they lost the newbees. Any advance??

 

[madasafish]

I always thought that this was how it worked, but I have since been told that the older bees form a "mantle" around the cluster. So, if they drop off and die, it's not as great a loss to the future of the colony as it would be if they lost the newbees. Any advance??

On the basis of what you have been told, no hive would last in cold weather...as the older bees would die and be replaced by younger ones who would die who...

 

[Finman]

I always thought that this was how it worked, but I have since been told that the older bees form a "mantle" around the cluster. So, if they drop off and die, it's not as great a loss to the future of the colony as it would be if they lost the newbees. Any advance??

That is imagination. Old bees die during autumn.
They are last brood which are winter bees. Winter bees do not have fed larvae.

 

[Bakerbee]

Just finished the buzz about bees by jurgen. In it he explains that they are similar to penguins but 3 dimensions using the empty cels as well. They like peguins rotate to the outer edge to take turns bringing the cold ones back in to warm up. The outer edge is a thick tight formation like an outer shield of insulation getting looser towards the center to allow a more normal enviroment for queen and workers to move around. So clever. The bees and Jergun!

 

[Poly Hive]

Mobus suggested that the movement of bees from the inner cluster to the outside was driven by thirst. His measurements seemed to point to this being the case.

PH

 

[Dodge]

Always wondered. Bees don't seem to chew holes in frames to facilitate horizontal movement between frames during the winter yet some colonies do make holes from time to time i the summer. This would obviously help a 3 dimmensional ball to move about the hive and access food.

 

[Teemore]

Always wondered. Bees don't seem to chew holes in frames to facilitate horizontal movement between frames during the winter yet some colonies do make holes from time to time i the summer. This would obviously help a 3 dimmensional ball to move about the hive and access food.

In the Summer and Autumn, the bees are doing their preparatory work for the Winter - including household re-modelling. They build/demolish/rebuild comb when they have the resources and weather to do so.