Cloake Board

[Poly Hive]

Last season I tried this method and the success rate compared to a starter box was poor. Some 7 from 20 accepted in the good weather.

Starter colony was double brood and super on 16+ frames of brood and bursting with bees.

Queen in bottom box.

Any hints, tips and suggestions welcome.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Did not have great success with the Cloake board last season.

Going to try a Paynes polly q- stuffed full of bees and feeder loaded, with an eke drilled to accept cell cups with grafts as a starter.

BHS polly on double brood with top feeder q below qx.... for finishing.

And keep duplicate rearing notes... one set in the queen rearing shed!!

 

[stevebrowning]

Last season I tried this method and the success rate compared to a starter box was poor. Some 7 from 20 accepted in the good weather.

Starter colony was double brood and super on 16+ frames of brood and bursting with bees.

Queen in bottom box.

Any hints, tips and suggestions welcome.

PH

I take a super off if there's one on there to cram them in even more, and use a large rapid feeder on top, my grafting frames are narrowed as much as possible to push the pollen frames up tight to the grafting bars. The only time I've had bad results is early in the season when the weathers duff. I like to see a good 4-5 pound of bees hanging off the front when I go to put the grafts in, but I do have a lot of support colonies to provide bees and brood.

 

[Murox]

From memory the two biggies were the numbers of nurse bees available and quality of nutrition at the critical time.
I know Cobey is not from the UK and that Mr Cloake was from New Zealand but this article https://www.delta-business.com/Calg...od of Queen Rearing and Banking Sue Cobey.pdf is probably well worth a read.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yep read that.

I think my issue really was the number of other larvae in competition with the grafts.

I believe some of the bigger producers use a Q+ system and am hoping they may offer some better ideas.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think my issue really was the number of other larvae in competition with the grafts.

Best to have no other larvae to feed, only the grafts you put in.

This is one of the best methods, described through Mikes video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tinVIuBJ8

I use a variation of this method that does not involve removing the bottom box.

 

[For want of a better word]

Yep read that.

I think my issue really was the number of other larvae in competition with the grafts.

I believe some of the bigger producers use a Q+ system and am hoping they may offer some better ideas.

PH

David Woodward has a good description of using the Cloake board in his book... not to hand at the moment... out in loan !

Have tried queenless and queenright finishers.... both weather dependent more than anything else???

Sorry not adding much info...

 

[B+.]

Best to have no other larvae to feed, only the grafts you put in.

This is one of the best methods, described through Mikes video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tinVIuBJ8

I use a variation of this method that does not involve removing the bottom box.

I completely agree! It's best not to have any eggs/larvae except your grafts in the cell raiser colony
My variation is that I raise combs of brood above the queen excluder until they are sealed, destroy any emergency cells then transfer them to the "starter" colony. That's a little bit of a misnomer for me though. I leave the cells in this "starter" until they are sealed (so it is serving as both starter and finisher). Then they are transferred to an incubator as the colony can't do anything more for the cells except keep them warm. I do it this way as it seems strange to transfer accepted cells to a "finisher" between frames of larvae where they will inevitably get less food. Using the same queenless "cell raiser" ensures they get all the food that the entire population can produce. As the sealed brood emerges, these cell raisers have lots of nurse bees (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3823 )

 

[mbc]

Shake the bees from the nest in the bottom box into the top box prior to closing the board and swapping the entrances.

 

[Poly Hive]

Interesting video Pete up to the point where he was inserting pollen into combs. Just impossible for me so that was the end point.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Just impossible for me so that was the end point.

Why is that impossible for you?

I just use pollen clogged combs.

 

[Poly Hive]

I wondered about that but he was making such a point of the ones he filled....

Interesting though about the over winter nucs as I have been coming round to the same idea (on a vastly smaller scale) as the answer to so many issues especially on the smaller scale.

Thanks

PH

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Last season I tried this method and the success rate compared to a starter box was poor. Some 7 from 20 accepted in the good weather.

Starter colony was double brood and super on 16+ frames of brood and bursting with bees.

Queen in bottom box.

Any hints, tips and suggestions welcome.

PH

'might have just been a funny year last year!

 

[madasafish]

I have used the CB for two seasons in a row. Removal of all open brood in top box before inserting graft is essential so grafts are well fed. I start with one frame of open brood in top box when closing the floor - so nurse bees have something to do and practise feeding.. and then remove when inserting grafts (I use Nicot rather than graft)

Best I saw was 13 out of 20 - but my eyesight is carp - despite varifocals and magnification.. and my hands shake slightly (it's the gin....)

 

[domino]

I like the Mike Palmer method - but don't want to use a whole hive and I've got 9 nucs (that may over winter)

This year I was planning on:

1. Using a double poly nuc.
2. Slapping six frames of brood in the extender, with the queen in the bottom box - separated by a quuen excluder
3. Wait for the brood to hatch and shake them and empty comb into a nuc.
4. Add grafts

It's plan, I'm not pretending its a good one.

 

[Poly Hive]

By extender do you mean the top BB?

PH

 

[domino]

By extender do you mean the top BB?

PH

Indeed and Paynes nuc + excluder + brood box extender.

 

[Poly Hive]

New to me the usage of extender? Is this what Paynes call it?

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

New to me the usage of extender? Is this what Paynes call it?

https://www.paynesbeefarm.co.uk/nuc-mating-hives/brood-box-for-poly-nuc/

 

[B+.]

New to me the usage of extender? Is this what Paynes call it?

PH

Yes.
Nucs (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3910 )
Extension boxes (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3955 ). They are basically deep supers.

EDIT: Actually, it's a bit "unkind" to call them nucs. They are more like an 8-frame hive with a removable (in the Langstroth) frame feeder.