chalk brood

[Little John]

Perhaps more accurately change the queen to a queen from a line known to NOT show any chalkbrood.

The whole issue appears to revolve around just that - the SHOWING of chalk brood. It's still possible to have the infection - but for it to be masked by the behaviour of hygenic bees.

Peculiarities of Chalkbrood Affecting Research

Chalkbrood disease is particularly difficult for the researcher because the active disease can only be identified by mummies in the brood cells (white, gray, or black). Also, evaluation of inoculation or treatment is difficult because of the tendency of colonies to remove all traces of diseased material following hive manipulation or requeening, or during heavy sirup feeding or honey flows.

http://beesource.com/resources/usda/chalkbrood-research-at-madison-wisconsin/

LJ

 

[Finman]

The whole issue appears to revolve around just that - the SHOWING of chalk brood. It's still possible to have the infection - but for it to be masked by the behaviour of hygenic bees.

LJ

Immunitet has nothing to do with hygienic bees. You just don't understand.

If a hygienic bee move a sick larva off, there is a hole in the brood area.

When you put an immune queen into badly sick hive, it start to produce normal brood, even if those hygieneic bees emerge after 2 weeks.

.
Hygienic or immune bees mask nothing, if you get normal worker from every cell.

Same with EFB. Change genepool and you do not see any more that disease. One of the easiest case.

How I know... I have seen it with my own eyes.

.

 

[Finman]

Peculiarities of Chalkbrood Affecting Research

"Chalkbrood disease is particularly difficult for the researcher because the active disease can only be identified by mummies in the brood cells (white, gray, or black). Also, evaluation of inoculation or treatment is difficult because of the tendency of colonies to remove all traces of diseased material following hive manipulation or requeening, or during heavy sirup feeding or honey flows "

That writing is pure rubbish... I bet that that guy have not really seen chalkbrood. There is not any treatment. And it is easy to see.

Bees cannot remove traces that I do not notice it and hole in brood area.

Who is that wonder boy who do not notice any signs but believes,
that hive is sick..

We, who have had chalkbrood, that the disease is hidden untill it bursts again next spring.

My real chalkbrood started 1990 and I know enough about it. And how to get ridd of it.
I do not have hygienic bees.

.

 

[Into the lions den]

Chalkbrood susceptibility varies wildly between strains of bee. We find black bees and SOME carnica very poor in this respect. Requeening with a less susceptible line deals with a lot of it. It is at its worst early season when they are trying to cover amounts of brood that are taxing to the colony size, so it is temperature exacerbated albeit the underlying susceptibility is genetic.

Sometimes the worst chalk episodes are in the first cycle on NEW foundation.

I have seen ferals absolutely honking with chalk, so natural comb is a myth.

Have also seen so called low swarming native(ish) types that were only thus because the percentage of brood lost each cycle to chalk was hampering build up.

Some colonies do the opposite. The chalk only appears mid season. Queen selection for chalk absence is an all season assessment, not a snapshot.

Also, as Finman says, chalk in a comb is not reason to reject it in itself unless you are running a narrow gene base (big danger with current fashion for insemination in tiny units) as more chalk resistant stock just clean it up and a month later you would never know it had been a problem comb.

As for treating chalk brood with candida medication? Well be very thankful you are in Tasmania. You could get seriously nabbed for that here should even a trace end up in your honey and it was unlucky enough to be found. Would take some explaining.

 

[user 6228]

Chalkbrood susceptibility varies wildly between strains of bee. We find black bees and SOME carnica very poor in this respect. Requeening with a less susceptible line deals with a lot of it. It is at its worst early season when they are trying to cover amounts of brood that are taxing to the colony size, so it is temperature exacerbated albeit the underlying susceptibility is genetic.

Sometimes the worst chalk episodes are in the first cycle on NEW foundation.

I have seen ferals absolutely honking with chalk, so natural comb is a myth.

Have also seen so called low swarming native(ish) types that were only thus because the percentage of brood lost each cycle to chalk was hampering build up.

Some colonies do the opposite. The chalk only appears mid season. Queen selection for chalk absence is an all season assessment, not a snapshot.

Also, as Finman says, chalk in a comb is not reason to reject it in itself unless you are running a narrow gene base (big danger with current fashion for insemination in tiny units) as more chalk resistant stock just clean it up and a month later you would never know it had been a problem comb.

As for treating chalk brood with candida medication? Well be very thankful you are in Tasmania. You could get seriously nabbed for that here should even a trace end up in your honey and it was unlucky enough to be found. Would take some explaining.

any difference in incidence between poly and wood?

 

[Poly Hive]

Good question.

This thread would seriously benefit from some sitting on Nordic hands.

PH

 

[Michael Palmer]

If a hygienic bee move a sick larva off, there is a hole in the brood area.

I agree with this, and I too have seen it. Spivak told me that these colonies aren't hygienic enough.

So there are two modes of cleaning up chalk. Hygienic trait and resistance. Hygienic trait is a matter of degree. If the colony is hygienic enough, they clean up any infected pupae before they become infective. This halts the spread of disease...through spores from the spreading infection. Once a highly hygienic colony gets the infection cleaned up, you won't see all those empty cells in the brood pattern.

 

[spitzstick]

I tried the liquid nitrogen test the bee didn't think very much of it!!
Is there another test, less drastic, that will tell me if it is a hygienic queen?
The banana treatment is well known in Aus and has a good reputation. The Canesten not so well known though it seems to be very effective.I think in destroying the fungus. I am trying to get feedback on others who have used it.
It seems to me that by replacing the queen you are not eliminating the fungus.
Roger

 

[Finman]

.
As long as Australia uses its Banana slices, it does not get ridd of chalk.

I started my project, when I read from MAAREC disease booklet, that change genes of your apiary.

Otherwise the Australian disease text is just old fashion. I cannot understand why?

So, it seems that Spitz is not going to abandon his lovely strain.

What if chalkbrood evelopes banana resistant strain BRS. Then Austalia is in piss.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I tried the liquid nitrogen test the bee didn't think very much of it!!
Is there another test, less drastic, that will tell me if it is a hygienic queen?
The banana treatment is well known in Aus and has a good reputation. The Canesten not so well known though it seems to be very effective.I think in destroying the fungus. I am trying to get feedback on others who have used it.
It seems to me that by replacing the queen you are not eliminating the fungus.
Roger

Is liquid nitrogen more easily accessible in your location and what methods of handling it did you use?
Unless you have a use for it in some other process I'd imagine it to be expensive and dangerous to handle. Certainly something to treat with respect. https://www.nhsfife.org/nhs/index.c...&objectid=C6CA4FB9-A8B7-B771-4BEA1810A3A6A7B5

 

[kevrhcfag]

Is it just me or has this poster have an eerily similar posting style / attitude to a banned person from a month or 2 back.

 

[AndyTh]

I was told that in Germany, beekeepers sprinkled table salt (lightly salted!) on the brood frame top bars and that this was thought to stimulate broodnest cleaning generally; chalkbrood was cleaned up.

 

[Finman]

I was told that in Germany, beekeepers sprinkled table salt (lightly salted!) on the brood frame top bars and that this was thought to stimulate broodnest cleaning generally; chalkbrood was cleaned up.

Many use that salt thing. But researchers say that no chemical affects on chalkbrood.

It works, because summer heat will heal the disease. Chalkbrood does not go away with cleaning.

 

[Into the lions den]

any difference in incidence between poly and wood?

That's not as clear cut as you might think.

However, and without actually recorded statistics to back it up, we see less chalk brood in poly hives.

To qualify that there are strains of bee that are equally bad in both poly and wood, and strains of bee that are equally clear in both.

Its only in the intermediate strains that there is a chalk related advantage to poly. We had one unit of poly that was rattling with the stuff, but it was somewhat susceptible carnica mated onto local drones in a mainly Amm area, and this made them real underachievers, and the second cross back onto the local bees was even worse. Having bred those bees out of that unit it is now excellent and chalk is not a big issue in them.

It is a never ending battle here as the open mated stock is always being overwhelmed by the local drones and anything we put out there is pretty well indistinguishable from local in no more than 3 or 4 generations, and the chalk returns.

Selection for absence of chalk alone makes a huge difference to the speed of build up of the bees, which goes from pedestrian to explosive if you take away the 'chalk tax' from every cycle.

But back to the original question. Poly is an advantage but not a magic bullet in itself.

 

[B+.]

Chalkbrood does not go away with cleaning.

Many years ago, I used to see chalkbrood mummies in my hives just as you describe it. That must be over a decade ago now though. It is as ITLD an Michael Palmer have said: some bees have are naturally resistant to it. I never see chalkbrood in my colonies now. Even if I transfer a comb with chalkbrood into a colony to test for it. They clear it up and there is no more sign of its recurrence.
Some of you won't believe this though. Some of you will keep on posting the doom and gloom because you haven't experienced the transformation that I have. Thats a pity because it makes beginners think it is the way things will always be and its just something you have to live with.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Is it just me or has this poster have an eerily similar posting style / attitude to a banned person from a month or 2 back.

Dunno... how many Tasmanian members got banned recently?

 

[ugcheleuce]

I'm ... having hassels with chalkbrood.

I've only ever had chalkbrood in three of my hives, and they were all in the same apiary. In fact, when I moved the chalkbrooded hives from that apiary to another apiary, the chalkbrood problem went away, and when I moved one non-chalkbrooded hive to that apiary, it got chalkbrood. I tried requeening a few times. One of the colonies was quite large actually, but I could not get rid of the chalkbrood through requeening. What finally worked for that colony was to take out *all* the frames and replace them with foundation.

I guess most of it sense, in the end, because chalkbrood is spread by bees cleaning out chalkbrood, so to speak. I'm not sure what accounted for the chalkbrood spreading from hive to hive so vigorously.

 

[kevrhcfag]

Dunno... how many Tasmanian members got banned recently?

Where the internet thinks you are and where you actually are can be distant.

 

[Poly Hive]

VPN anybody?

PH

 

[Finman]

. Even if I transfer a comb with chalkbrood into a colony to test for it. They clear it up and there is no more sign of its recurrence..

Of course bees clean the combs, but your larvae are immune to disease.
.