Can you preemptively artificial swarm?

[mjt68]

Hang on a second, the descriptions of the Demaree I have seen specify that the manipulation must be done once the hive has started swarming preparations. What I was wondering is whether an artificial swarm method can be implemented before the bees have started swarming preparations.

Basically, once there is a nice day and the bees have started flying, just do the artificial swarm and get it out of the way (If they haven't started preparations already, that is).

All methods of AS or swarm control are essentially a way of separating brood from queen and foragers. You can do this any time, but there's always a compromise.

Spreading across two or more boxes is more reliable but takes a big bite out of your harvest. Relying on getting queens mated in poor weather or early/late season is risky. You need extra kit to do this and you may not want to double the number of colonies you have.

Keeping everything under one roof means you get more honey, but if you miss a QC you may lose a swarm unless you do snelgrove/horsley but these mean several trips to apiary and special kit. You also need a plan at the end of the process to stay with one colony and one queen - do you keep old or new? Etc.

Whilst swarming is what bees do, there are ways to minimise it like young queens, supering early and using non-swarmy stock. I worry that you're treating it as a foregon conclusion, going to lots of extra work and setting your bees back when just watching and waiting might be the right thing to do. Having a plan is important, but you don't need to worry until it happens and you see QCs. Swarming isn't a once a year thing to be got out of the way - a colony might try 0 times or it might try 4 or 5.

 

[REDWOOD]

There is another way which involves bleeding of the foragers, especially if you cannot find the queen


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[Zante]

Can the Pagden method be used preemptively or does that require the presence of queen cells? Snelgrove?

The frequency of manipulation is relatively irrelevant as I'm planning to keep the hives in my garden, and I'd be working from home.

 

[Eyeman]

Can the Pagden method be used preemptively or does that require the presence of queen cells? Snelgrove?

I can see your point. You want to reduced the chances of a swarm worrying the neighbours which is something we all aspire to.
Read up about the Demaree method as already posted as this would be your best bet.

 

[mjt68]

Can the Pagden method be used preemptively or does that require the presence of queen cells? Snelgrove?

The frequency of manipulation is relatively irrelevant as I'm planning to keep the hives in my garden, and I'd be working from home.

This link is good, never used it myself though
http://barnsleybeekeepers.org.uk/snelgrove.html

A vertical method is likely best as you don't compromise your honey or threaten colony survival (small colonies are less robust) to the same extent as splitting into two hives as per Pagden.

Three more things to consider:
1) doing these manipulation at the start of the season doesn't mean the bees won't swarm later. If you keep thinking too pre-emptively you'd end up splitting every week.
2) splits double the number of colonies, as poentially does Snelgrove/Horsely (more than double even). Vertical stack can get very big and involve lots of bees. Having lots of colonies and bees from a start of one or two can be intimidating to keeper and neighbours.
3) you will lose swarms. Hopefully not many, but it will happen. It's only right to think about the impact on your neighbours and responsible keeping and timely manipulation and inspections reduce the risk, but it is completely unrealistic to think you'll stop them all.

Find an out apiary. You might never need it but if the bees need to be moved that day, you're ready.

 

[Zante]

Find an out apiary. You might never need it but if the bees need to be moved that day, you're ready.

Well... knowing myself I know I won't be able to limit myself to two colonies

So, yes, I'll be on the lookout of an out apiary from the start. I like to plan in advance, the way I see it is hope for the best but prepare for the worst.