Buckfast Queen

[drstitson]

well AI, given the relative difficulty/cost involved, will only be used to produced breeder queens "mated" with controlled drone stock - that way you know exactly what daughter queens will be and then of course those get mated how you prefer - open, isolated mating apiary etc.

of course for drone mother colonies it doesn't matter how the daughter queens are mated! So you invest a range of AI queens to head them.

 

[BBG]

A truly isolated area is the holy grail for bee breeders and if there was one in your area, believe me, it would have been found and utilised. BIBBA , BibCo and people on the forum quite near you would have made good use of such an area.
.

That is so wrong so very very wrong.

 

[Tom Bick]

Any bee that is suited for your particular environmental conditions and does not die over winter, good on the comb and does not sting ping and follow, is disease tolerant dose not consume all its stores at a drop in flow, is productive in terms of brood and honey and does not swarm at every opportunity!
That is what bee improvement is all about.

So called Buckfast may do this for you without the need to requeen from far far away every new season ( or two)

We are lucky to have AMM stock that is looking good in the Rame area, the more north, east and west you go there bee NZ Carnies and so called Bucckfasts...

That’s great are they good old local stock of AMM and if so how close would you say to true AMM.

 

[Stiffy]

We are lucky to have AMM stock that is looking good in the Rame area, the more north, east and west you go there bee NZ Carnies and so called Bucckfasts...


Amm indeed, are you sure or are they just local black mongrels and you have been caught up in the black is best bxxxks?

I do wonder if this 2nd/3rd generation nastiness in strains other than their favoured local mongrel is a figment of someones imagination and could occur no matter which strain you decide to keep?
S

 

[Tom Bick]

We are lucky to have AMM stock that is looking good in the Rame area, the more north, east and west you go there bee NZ Carnies and so called Bucckfasts...


Amm indeed, are you sure or are they just local black mongrels and you have been caught up in the black is best bxxxks?

I do wonder if this 2nd/3rd generation nastiness in strains other than their favoured local mongrel is a figment of someones imagination and could occur no matter which strain you decide to keep?
S

I wonder if his black bees are closer to Buckfast than AMM?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I wonder if his black bees are closer to Buckfast than AMM?

"So-called" AMM then?

 

[For want of a better word]

"So-called" AMM then?

Wing vein measurement discoidal shift etc etc are all well documented by Cushman and others and on BiPCo's web pages.

Probably beyond the scope of majority of beekeepers unless into quite advanced degree level genetics.
There is some exciting research going on by various Universities into bee genetics and genetic fingerprinting... utilising PCR etc ( Dr St please elaborate!)

Claims for Cornwalls black AMMs are fairly well established, however to the disbelievers I would agree that the darker variety of Carnolians certainly look like AMMs... untill one delves a bit more closely.

Sticking to my guns over now no such beast as a TRUE BUCKFAST BEE as mongeralised by BA !

 

[Stiffy]

Wing vein measurement discoidal shift etc etc are all well documented by Cushman and others and on BiPCo's web pages.

Probably beyond the scope of majority of beekeepers unless into quite advanced degree level genetics.
There is some exciting research going on by various Universities into bee genetics and genetic fingerprinting... utilising PCR etc ( Dr St please elaborate!)

Claims for Cornwalls black AMMs are fairly well established, however to the disbelievers I would agree that the darker variety of Carnolians certainly look like AMMs... untill one delves a bit more closely.

Sticking to my guns over now no such beast as a TRUE BUCKFAST BEE as mongeralised by BA !

Have had so called AMM with the discoidal shift and all the other qualities of AMM including being utter bxxxxxxds to be near and work. They also had the Cornish trait of do everything 'Dreckly' and produced very little honey!
Call them mongrels if you like but for now I am more than happy with the documented lineage of my II mated Buckfast queens and the offspring they produce. I just hope that I can keep my virgin queens clear of the black AMM mongrels in the surrounding area as I want few, if any AMM traits being bought in!
If they start to change, which no doubt they will I am more than ready to bring in more Buckfast from the same supplier to get back to the bees I enjoy
S

 

[Tom Bick]

Wing vein measurement discoidal shift etc etc are all well documented by Cushman and others and on BiPCo's web pages.

Probably beyond the scope of majority of beekeepers unless into quite advanced degree level genetics.
There is some exciting research going on by various Universities into bee genetics and genetic fingerprinting... utilising PCR etc ( Dr St please elaborate!)

Claims for Cornwalls black AMMs are fairly well established, however to the disbelievers I would agree that the darker variety of Carnolians certainly look like AMMs... untill one delves a bit more closely.

Sticking to my guns over now no such beast as a TRUE BUCKFAST BEE as mongeralised by BA !

I am not aware that anyone is saying this I personally refer to them as Bucfast type its there characteristics that are important to me and not that they have the same genetics as the bees brother Adam worked with that is to me just not possible.

Even if brother Adam could live forever and still working with bees the genetics of the bees he would have today would be quite different.

I understand that wing morphology is a reasonably accurate way of identifying bees with a good number of threads this is a good one.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4455&highlight=Wing+morphology

 

[wightbees]

I have just watched the DVD of BA and the buckfast bee.
I agree his work was never finished and if still working with the bees he would still be trying to improve on current stock.
But i have this question for BF breeders,BA when in search of new Genes only wanted pure Queens and not a cross from what i understand.So how do you breeders go about this ?Do you add the same type queen to mix new genes in or look for New Queens?

 

[Hivemaker.]

The old lines are still preserved,and used to stabilise.

From the BBG.

Concept of the Island matingstation Langø Denmark is: "There can be only one"
Here we are "shifting genes" and only using "clean" puremated Lines from Buckfast Abbey, from before 93

http://www.buckfast.biz/


http://perso.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/index.html

Where are the Cornish AMM pedigrees to be seen?

 

[For want of a better word]

I am not aware that anyone is saying this I personally refer to them as Bucfast type its there characteristics that are important to me and not that they have the same genetics as the bees brother Adam worked with that is to me just not possible.

Even if brother Adam could live forever and still working with bees the genetics of the bees he would have today would be quite different.

I understand that wing morphology is a reasonably accurate way of identifying bees with a good number of threads this is a good one.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4455&highlight=Wing+morphology

Bxxkxxxs it is then !

Temperament etc is what we aim for ... things including bees must evolve!

​

 

[mbc]

The old lines are still preserved,and used to stabilise.

From the BBG.

Concept of the Island matingstation Langø Denmark is: "There can be only one"
Here we are "shifting genes" and only using "clean" puremated Lines from Buckfast Abbey, from before 93

http://www.buckfast.biz/


http://perso.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/index.html

Where are the Cornish AMM pedigrees to be seen?

BBG, Big Blue Giant ?
Why should a wild, indigenous creature have a man made pedigree ?
Why should we look up to the Danish system

 

[wightbees]

I seen in the dvd that he went in search of the black bee,.N africa,highlands.A few where taken from there colonys but where they used?

 

[For want of a better word]

Where are the Cornish AMM pedigrees to be seen?

They are thriving on the two islands off of Kingsbridge on the RYA Yachmasters practice charts !

 

[Hivemaker.]

Why should a wild, indigenous creature have a man made pedigree ?

To know what you have and its history,many wild animals have man made pedigrees,even giant pandas.

 

[Carsten]

BBG, Big Blue Giant ?
Why should a wild, indigenous creature have a man made pedigree ?
Why should we look up to the Danish system

Pedigree system is not Danish, it is English (Brother Adam). So we look up to you