BS National deep frames.

[Prince of Durham]

At the risk of asking whats already been asked and lets face it, if a forum goes long enough, everything wil be.

I've recently taken hold of 4 national hives. However the supers have all come with BS national deep frames. I know that its best to and also wish to replace the frames for new. So here goes>>

1: I have no experience of BS national deep frames, are they readily available to buy? I'm having trouble finding them.

2: Can I use standard national frames in the supers or will the bottom bee space be too much and cause bracing comb?

3: Does anyone have the deffinative measurements for BS National Deeps? I'm not 100% certain of the person who I got them off.

For now I'm not overly concerned about the weight of the supers. I just want the best for the bees.

Regards

 

[blackbrood]

If the supers have come with deep national frames does that mean the supers are in fact brood boxes IE are all the boxes the same size?

1/ yes , see t hornes or lots of beek suppliers. look at my map here

2/ you cannot use super frames in brood boxes, would cases problems

3/ yes. see this image

BB

PS Welcome to the forum

 

[nonstandard]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

A good resource for frame sizes is Dave Cushman's site

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bsframedimensions.html

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bs_frames.html

There's a good thread on hive/frame sizes on the forum too
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=75078

If the 'supers' have BS Deep frames they will actually be brood boxes used as supers, just about any beekeeping supplier should be able to provide you with deep frames.

Check first BS deep should be 14"x 8 1/2" and BS shallows are 14" x 5 1/2"

 

[blackbrood]

some thing worth mentioning ....

national broods are 14inch x 8 1/2 inch
but
national deeps are 14inch x 12 inch

both are brood boxes but national deeps are errr well deeper.
see above image for mm's

BB

 

[nonstandard]

At risk of starting an argument, it is my belief that a BS deep frame is 8 1/2"
and the more modern 14" x 12" frame is correctly referred to as 14x12, extra deep or jumbo.

 

[MuswellMetro]

At risk of starting an argument, it is my belief that a BS deep frame is 8 1/2"
and the more modern 14" x 12" frame is correctly referred to as 14x12, extra deep or jumbo.

agree,

SN1, SN2,SN2 etc shallow national for super
DN1, DN4, DN5 etc deep national for brood

i have seen in old catalogues

EDN1, EDN4 and EDN5 extra Deep national for 14x12,

just no one every now uses the EDN as they only make Hoffman 14x12 DN5 now (unless you use a thin N4 top bar)



So measure the boxes and we will see what you have got, did you buy them of Ebay from a bloke in yrokshire as it you did you may have commercial brood with national brood boxes as commercial supers

 

[MuswellMetro]

sorry ,forgot to welcome you to the forum, and how is Murton, i know the Seaham area well as my GF was a deputy and colliery engineman at Dawdon pit

if you know anyone with the surname Hood in your area, i am probably related to them

 

[blackbrood]

At risk of starting an argument, it is my belief that a BS deep frame is 8 1/2"
and the more modern 14" x 12" frame is correctly referred to as 14x12, extra deep or jumbo.

shooks, I live and learn

Cheers

BB

 

[margob99]

I've only bought one batch of 14 x 12 frames and foundation, as it's my intention to transfer from standard national to 14 x 12 this summer, but I believe they are not as easy to find, and they are (naturally) more expensive

 

[nonstandard]

I've only bought one batch of 14 x 12 frames and foundation, as it's my intention to transfer from standard national to 14 x 12 this summer, but I believe they are not as easy to find, and they are (naturally) more expensive

I have bought two lots of 14x12's one from Wynn Jones and the other in the seconds sale at Th**nes, I agree though they are not always available locally. my nearest supplier (also a commercial beekeeping enterprise) doesn't stock them probably because he doesn't use them; I'm sure that will change as more people change over.

Regarding the cost, I just did some quick maths from internet prices and facts and figures.

14x12 frames with 72000 cells per 11 brood frames = 6545 cells per frame
and at Thorne's prices 1 frame and foundation roughly costs £2.58
which equates to 25.4 cells/penny

BS deep brood frames with 50000 cells per 11 brood frames = 4545 cells per frame
again using Thorne's prices 1 frame and foundation roughly costs £1.65
which equates to 27.5 cells/penny

So for the brood area they are not far out on cost, and 14x12's become better value if you would otherwise be using brood and a half, I would have done the maths but I don't know the number of cells in a super frame.

I await being shot down for my maths - it never was my strong point

Oh and I didn't factor in delivery if you can't get 14x12's locally

 

[Easy Beesy]

admin
BBs Hive Summary worthy of a sticky?

 

[oliver90owner]

I think here there may be a bit of confusion on modern hive notation and frame sizes.

Two different items; connected, yes. But nevertheless separate, if you see what I mean. The 1920s standard was consistent, I believe.

Regards, RAB

 

[Prince of Durham]

Thank you everyone. I'll measure the super depths next time I'm at the Allotment, then add to the thread. Those charts are excellent, I'm a proper tart for a chart.

Unfourtunatly I'm an imigrant over here. Married the local school teacher and moved by the sea. But if I meet a Hood on my travels I'll be certain to give them a jar of Honey

M