Brood spreading

[Skyhook]

I've read a lot about brood spreading in books, but not much on here (other than ITLD talking about an end-of-season version). Do any on here practice it, and if so what are your criteria as to which colonies and when? PS this is NOT a statement of intent to 'get stuck in'!

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[Poly Hive]

I am not keen on the term brood spreading as that can lead to serious confusion.

I prefer to talk about working the brood box.

PH

 

[rae]

We followed (roughly) PHs instructions last year and it worked very well.

In essence, if you have a healthy colony on 7 or 8 frames, there is nothing wrong with taking one of the edge frames (which in many broods is still foundation), and sticking it right in the middle of the box. They very rapidly draw it, and lay it up. We consistently had all our colonies on 9 / 10 brood frames using this approach. Clearly there is a risk that it will overwhelm a weak colony, but on out stronger ones, we did it every week until the box was fully used.

We used it when we felt that the colonies were "stuck" - sitting on about 7 frames for a while and going nowhere. We also used it to generate more brood frames for splitting - just use plain foundation, it works fine.

It feels very wrong as all the books say it is wrong, but it worked well for us.

 

[drstitson]

if the brood box was properly expanded (presumably from a nuc) then there shouldn't be frames of foundation hanging around on outer frames - nucs should be slowly expanded by adding foundation as needed in a dummied down, possibly insulated brood box.

 

[Finman]

We followed (roughly) PHs instructions last year and it worked very well.

In essence, if you have a healthy colony on 7 or 8 frames, there is nothing wrong with taking one of the edge frames (which in many broods is still foundation), and sticking it right in the middle of the box.
It feels very wrong as all the books say it is wrong, but it worked well for us.

it is really wrong. It is harmfull to build up.

Why the edge frame have not brood? - because they are too cold. They are necessary to store pollen because bees' instinct say to do so.

If you want more brood frames, use two brood boxes.

I have often 15 frames brood but I never put brood frames against wall. Yes,I have done it over 40 years ago and I have seen what happens. And edge frames are usefull as food stores.

But i do not nurse my hives frame by frame. Style is box by box.

Bees have their instincts. If you mix their order, they use much energy to return their original order.
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[For want of a better word]

going from a 5 frame nuc to a national brood I have followed the practice of one frame of foundation each side with dummy boards... each side... to make up space, adding one more frame of foundation each side as bees draw it out...

Have read about spreading brood, but have not noticed it to be necessary... but then I am not poking around the bees every 5 minutes!

 

[rae]

If you mix their order, they use much energy to return their original order.

All I can say is it worked well for us. Last year we used this technique to expand the brood area several times, and the bees just got on and expanded the brood area. Clearly towards the end of summer you stop doing it as the bees are trying to load stores in the brood box.

 

[REDWOOD]

Hi, I do move brood frames but not to expand but only for comb management so 2 or 3 frames are worked out to the ends so fresh fondation can be replaced every year

 

[mbc]

Bees have their instincts. If you mix their order, they use much energy to return their original order.
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wholeheartedly, at least in the Spring, getting foundation drawn from early Summer onwards is a different matter IMO

 

[birchdale]

:
Bees have their instincts. If you mix their order, they use much energy to return their original order.
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wholeheartedly, at least in the Spring, getting foundation drawn from early Summer onwards is a different matter IMO

 

[Poly Hive]

Well not unsurprisingly I will wholeheartedly disagree with the agree banners.

Why? Well many are taught never to interfere in the BB because the teacher was taught that in their turn.

I was taught by a highly capable Bee Farmer many years ago how to do it, and it does indeed work very well, with the following proviso.

The practitioner must be able to gauge the colony strength and to act accordingly. It is not a one size fits all situation.


Now then for the real shocker, I begin at four frames.... OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH GASPS.

PH

 

[iand]

it is really wrong. It is harmfull to build up.

Why the edge frame have not brood? - because they are too cold. They are necessary to store pollen because bees' instinct say to do so.

And edge frames are usefull as food stores.


Bees have their instincts. If you mix their order, they use much energy to return their original order.
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I agree Finman that's how it works normally, but just to throw a spanner in the works. We came across a stock in a 10 frame Langstroth last summer with 9 frames of brood & 1 full frame of pollen only, right in the middle of the brood nest!
Each to their own I guess.

 

[Poly Hive]

Seen many a poly Lang with 10 frames of brood.

and?

PH

 

[Skyhook]

I agree Finman that's how it works normally, but just to throw a spanner in the works. We came across a stock in a 10 frame Langstroth last summer with 9 frames of brood & 1 full frame of pollen only, right in the middle of the brood nest! Each to their own I guess.

Seen many a poly Lang with 10 frames of brood.

and?

PH

I think the answer is the red bit- the bees splitting their own brood.

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[Finman]

Seen many a poly Lang with 10 frames of brood.

and?

PH

I see never. I give free space to lay and bees never use edge frames for brooding.
I understand 10 frames if you use excluder.

When I use 3 frame nucs, then hive has brood in every 3 frames.

Often I see that behind upper entrance there is frame which is half full pollen and no brood. Pollen foragers unload they bargain at once when they come in. It is in the middle of the brood box. So what? Shoud I allways tell to bees what they should do?

I am not eager to rearrange their frames. It is not my business.

 

[Finman]

.
Natural brood form in the hive is round. it is not cubic.

The brood space is often second box allmost full, in lower box 1/3 and in first super half.
That is why I use 3 brood,. It is flexiple way to arrange frames in late summer when I arrange room for winter bees brooding.

 

[Poly Hive]

With the greatest respect Finman this is here in the Maritime UK not the Finnish summer. We are not discussing Finland and if we were I would take all you say as probably quite right.

However we are discussing the UK.

PH

 

[mbc]

Well not unsurprisingly I will wholeheartedly disagree with the agree banners.

Why? Well many are taught never to interfere in the BB because the teacher was taught that in their turn.

I was taught by a highly capable Bee Farmer many years ago how to do it, and it does indeed work very well, with the following proviso.

The practitioner must be able to gauge the colony strength and to act accordingly. It is not a one size fits all situation.


Now then for the real shocker, I begin at four frames.... OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH GASPS.

PH

Works to what effect ?
If the intention is to accelerate colony development then I dont think brood spreading actually achieves this.
I have tried it, and it appears to work, but when I tried brood spreading with a group of hives alongside another group of roughly equivalent hives that didnt get brood spread, the control group did better by the end of the season, my conclusion was it was a load of unnecessary disruption for the bees which didn't achieve anything purposeful.
Just my pennysworth.

 

[Finman]

With the greatest respect Finman this is here in the Maritime UK not the Finnish summer. We are not discussing Finland and if we were I would take all you say as probably quite right.

However we are discussing the UK.

PH

you use excluder, right! And you force the bees do what they would never do without you?

that again.....you are not Great Britain, sorry pal.

I have 10 miles distance to sea. Perhaps I have more maritime environment than you.

Don't keep me *****
and I am not a president of Finland. Our president has red hair.

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

you use excluder, right! And you force the bees do what they would never do without you?

that again.....you are not Great Britain, sorry pal.

I have 10 miles distance to sea. Perhaps I have more maritime environment than you.

Don't keep me *****
and I am not a president of Finland. Our president has red hair.

.

? (bemused shrug smilie required methinks)