Brood box full of stores

[Beagle23]

I lost a swarm and a cast swarm this spring and after a dodgy start my new queen is laying plenty of eggs. However, I usually expect to see about 20% of the space in the brood box given to stores, currently it's about 70% with every remaining cell of comb full with eggs or brood. I have two supers on and both are almost completely drawn out but have no stores in them.
Clearly the bees are having no trouble accessing the supers as the comb is drawn, but for some reason they seem reluctant to use them. All frames had new, wired foundation at the start of the year.

Any thoughts?

 

[REDWOOD]

This is what bees do, it's called back filling. Bees will move it when they require more space, if it's sealed try uncapping it and they might move it up.
Bees will work this to suit them not you unfortunately

 

[Beagle23]

This is what bees do, it's called back filling. Bees will move it when they require more space, if it's sealed try uncapping it and they might move it up.
Bees will work this to suit them not you unfortunately

Thanks. I was aware of back filling, but didn't expect them to do so at the expense of so much brood space

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Some bees are better at putting honey above their heads than others who tend to keep it close. However after your swarm and cast, there will not be a massive amount of bees so they will shrink back accordingly.

 

[bjosephd]

My instinct as a relative beginner would be to put a second brood box beneath the current one so the queen can move down before she's honeybound. As said above some colonies seem strangely reluctant to move up.

If you've got drawn brood frames even better... summer flow is (hopefully) on it's way!

 

[maddydog]

My instinct as a relative beginner would be to put a second brood box beneath the current one so the queen can move down before she's honeybound. As said above some colonies seem strangely reluctant to move up.

If you've got drawn brood frames even better... summer flow is (hopefully) on it's way!

With respect, the bees instinct is better than yours. They've been doing this for millions of years. The colony in question has already lost a swarm and a cast, therefore it is unlikely they will have enough bees to swarm again this season.

 

[Eyeman]

This is when it's an advantage if your extractor takes brood frames as you could extract 50% of the capped brood stores and give back drawn empty brood comb.
As others have said, if the colony has been weakened they won't want to move up into the supers until their numbers increase. Good news is they are drawing the foundation on the supers so you may not have to wait long before honey appears.

 

[chrisb]

Out of curiosity Beagle have you got a QE in there ?

 

[Beagle23]

Out of curiosity Beagle have you got a QE in there ?

Yep, I recently threw away the old mesh version for a framed grill type.

 

[bjosephd]

With respect, the bees instinct is better than yours. They've been doing this for millions of years. The colony in question has already lost a swarm and a cast, therefore it is unlikely they will have enough bees to swarm again this season.

I couldn't agree more... and I understand for those millions of years bees have started at the top and work down no? Rather than starting at the bottom and working up through a queen excluder just to store honey while queen and brood are restricted with empty space above their heads. Some colonies do of course take to it easily. But it's odd when compared to the previous millions of years.

 

[chrisb]

Hi Beagle
no dought I will get slaughtered by someone over saying what i am going to say BUT I will and so sorry going to spell the reasoning out not for you but those who jump in with both feet
had same case a few times with being honey bound I see your situation as
having lost swarm and cast big drop in bees requiring a build up of bees especially to get good numbers pre winter ! achievable due to good laying queen.
however lack of laying space for said queen causing a slowing in production of brood. lack of space due to honey bound brood frames

advantage two supers with drawn comb but no honey therefore resolve to said problem " remove the honey excluder " sorry meant queen excluder

give HM right of way wherever she wishes to go, if she lays up in the supers dont panic more eggs = more stores needed to feed and stores will be taken from brood frames revealing space. they will move honey up if they wish with more ease, as brood emerges in supers they will clean and if space needed for honey they will fill it but you will build up bee numbers. once built back up and brood chamber balanced again you can allways coax her down stairs and put your QE back on

have only said the latter as done it a few times and won every time, now I dont even use QE i just ensure I have a full super of honey above the brood

above all mate patience and perseverance gets you home ! all the best wishes you can do it

 

[bjosephd]

Hi Beagle

no dought I will get slaughtered by someone over saying what i am going to say BUT I will and so sorry going to spell the reasoning out not for you but those who jump in with both feet

had same case a few times with being honey bound I see your situation as

having lost swarm and cast big drop in bees requiring a build up of bees especially to get good numbers pre winter ! achievable due to good laying queen.

however lack of laying space for said queen causing a slowing in production of brood. lack of space due to honey bound brood frames



advantage two supers with drawn comb but no honey therefore resolve to said problem " remove the honey excluder " sorry meant queen excluder



give HM right of way wherever she wishes to go, if she lays up in the supers dont panic more eggs = more stores needed to feed and stores will be taken from brood frames revealing space. they will move honey up if they wish with more ease, as brood emerges in supers they will clean and if space needed for honey they will fill it but you will build up bee numbers. once built back up and brood chamber balanced again you can allways coax her down stairs and put your QE back on



have only said the latter as done it a few times and won every time, now I dont even use QE i just ensure I have a full super of honey above the brood



above all mate patience and perseverance gets you home ! all the best wishes you can do it

Agree.

 

[Beagle23]

Thanks Chris, I appreciate you taking the risk of forum kickback

I had a quick look in the hive this morning and the brood box is now completely full, with no laying space (about 60/40 in favour of honey stores). so I've partly taken you advice and moved the QE up to create a brood and half arrangement. As you say, it's lucky that the supers are drawn out, and the queen can start laying immediately.

Thank you all for the help

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks Chris, I appreciate you taking the risk of forum kickback

I had a quick look in the hive this morning and the brood box is now completely full, with no laying space (about 60/40 in favour of honey stores). so I've partly taken you advice and moved the QE up to create a brood and half arrangement. As you say, it's lucky that the supers are drawn out, and the queen can start laying immediately.

Thank you all for the help

Just make sure those supers are on 11 frames per box. I once stupidly let the queen have the run of a 10 frame box

 

[JWF]

Just make sure those supers are on 11 frames per box. I once stupidly let the queen have the run of a 10 frame box

I made the mistake of leaving the half on castellations, with 10 frames. It was a nightmare - I couldn't manipulate any of the super frames without squishing many bees, leading to rather feisty bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I made the mistake of leaving the half on castellations, with 10 frames. It was a nightmare - I couldn't manipulate any of the super frames without squishing many bees, leading to rather feisty bees.

My queen filled three frames with drones!

 

[Beagle23]

I've suspected for sometime that my bees are playing me for a fool. I couldn't resist a quick peek this evening to see if there'd been any movement up from the brood box. It's been gloriously sunny and the bees have been coming and going at pace. So I take the roof off and the first thing I see is the top super full of bees ferreting away stores, I check the super below and there's a couple of workers tinkering with the comb but that's it.

I swear they're toying with me

 

[bjosephd]

I've suspected for sometime that my bees are playing me for a fool. I couldn't resist a quick peek this evening to see if there'd been any movement up from the brood box. It's been gloriously sunny and the bees have been coming and going at pace. So I take the roof off and the first thing I see is the top super full of bees ferreting away stores, I check the super below and there's a couple of workers tinkering with the comb but that's it.

I swear they're toying with me

Big heavy boxes aside, this is, I understand, why it can be advantages to have to use all the same size boxes.

You could then lift a brood frame or two up into the empty box to draw the colony and queen up.