Brood and a half method

[meirch1]

Are there any diehard enthusiasts for this method out there, I recently accidentally trapped my queen above the excluder and the super is full of brood!( thought I had lost her as I couldn't find her in the brood box). Anyway next inspection there she was on the super frame and very active. I have placed the super beneath the brood box, so I now have brood and a half.
Most comment on these forums is quite negative, I seek advice from protagonists for this method, inspection tips, pitfalls, advantages etc

 

[picton farm]

I use a double brood for a lot of my bees at certain times of year. Currently I have 30 double broods, and 3 on abrood and a half. I dont really like the latter because it is a bit fiddly and has less advantages than the double.
Inspection is relatively simple. I start by smoking the door, which tends to send HM upwards into the top box. Then I put the roof on the floor as close to the hive as possible. The reason for this is to minimise the chance of dropping HM on the floor.
the next thing is to put your hive tool between the two boxes and unstick them from eachother, taking great care to make sure that any bridging they have done is broken through. (This avoids accidentally pulling out frames from the bottom box when you lift the top one off.)Then lift everything apart from the botton box in one big pile.

 

[picton farm]

Place this carefully on top of the upturned roof.
Inspect the brood still on the stand, clearing away any brace comb from the top bars.
Then lift the rest of the pile back ontop of the first brood very carefully. Now remove the supers in the usual way and inspect the upper brood.
Reassemble the hive as usual.
I find that if i need to do a very quick inspection, I can just tilt the top box and look at the junction between the two. Looking into the gap, any queen cells at the top of the bottom brood can be easily seen, as can any in the bottom of the second box. Usually on a double or brood and a half, the cells will be between the two boxes.
I hope this is helpful. It is the way I was shown, it may or may not be correct, but it works for me. It means a lot of lifting. It can be done by removing the supers at the beginning but obviously you dont want to put the top brood on top of the pile of supers in case HM moves down through the crown board. You just need to make another pile. Always put the top box on top of an upturned lid so that if HM drops out, you will see her.

 

[oliver90owner]

Most comment on these forums is quite negative,

I do hope you mean only specificlly re brood and a half!

It has been used for generations, even before the standard for the UK beehive came into use, so was a popular choice.

Don't know whether they tended to condense the hive to a single brood and overwinter on a brood and a super of honey or just filled the boxes.

For some reason (probably down to the normal deep brood being big enough for most colonies/strains (of the day), most of the time (when the standard was set up) and the distinct apparent dislike of the extra-deep frames, the 14 x 12 was never popular.

A 14 x 12 is now more popular than a brood and a half, I would say, so people have been enlightened over the last decade. It is nearly equivalent to your present format, but has several advantages. Double brood also is favoured over brood and a half, but is considerably larger than the 14 x 12, and has the simple advantages of weight of a single box, frames that can be used in the top or bottom brood, frames that are easier to get drawn out (and straight) and are often over-wintered on the one box.

That rather leaves the brood and a half in the middle of nowhere. In all honesty I would have made sure my queen was in the deep box and inserted a Q/E between the boxes and reverted to single brood in three weeks or 24 days (drones), if she does not need to fill two boxes (peak lay-rate is possibly passed already for this season).

Don't beat yourself up at getting in the mess with the queen laying upstairs - it happens to all of us at some time. Just don't commit yourself to everlasting brood and a half, is my advice.

RAB

 

[picton farm]

One of the advantages of using this method is that the top box can be removed at any time and allowed to make itself a new queen. The bottom box with flying bees, will continue to produce honey, and you can either use the split as an increase, or a method of producing a new queen for the main hive. Once the new queen is laying, you can kill the old one and combine the two boxes usingthe newspaper method.
I love the double broods because it allows quick inspections when i am pushed for time and because it makes requeening very simple without a loss of productivity.
The disadvantage is that for a beginner, the colonies get very strong and sometimes a bit harder to subdue with smoke. It is fine when the nature of the bees is good, but can be a bit daunting at first if your bees are at all aggressive.
I hope this is helpful.

 

[scuttlefish]

One of the advantages of using this method is that the top box can be removed at any time and allowed to make itself a new queen.

Do you just remove the top box when there's brood in both, eggs in at least one & the old queen in the other?

 

[region2]

Most comment on these forums is quite negative, I seek advice from protagonists for this method, inspection tips, pitfalls, advantages etc

You're not the 1st person to say that unfortunately. Luckily you seem to have come through unscathed. So far...

My 1st instructor suggested brood and a half - even Seeley thinks this gives the ideal volume for a colony!

R2

 

[Queens59]

If you didn't want to run brood and a half, you could move HM down again, and just allow the brood to hatch. They would then fill with honey as intended. I have 2 hives on double at the moment, heavy but happy.

 

[DanBee]

Most comment on these forums is quite negative, I seek advice from protagonists for this method, inspection tips, pitfalls, advantages etc

I'll bite

The reason brood and a half is not popular is that it involves having two brood boxes with incompatible frame sizes. The moving of frames between boxes isn't possible, thus moving stores up and out, or space down, or simply reorganising all the frames with brood together, all become impractical verging on impossible. Essentially you gain space that you are prevented from using easily. As your situation illustrates, it is often arrived at by accident, not by choice.

picton farm has given a good overview of how double brood can be worked. With consistent brood frame sizes you can reorganise any frames in the brood area as you see fit. It's more space and the ability to use it.

As others have noted, you have got into brood and a half by accident. By placing the queen below an excluder, you can quickly and easily back out of the current situation once the brood in the super has hatched.

The only positive of brood and a half is that it illustrates that a single brood box is insufficient space. A single national deep, or indeed flavour-of-the-month 14x12 are still small boxes, too small for bees in any area with half decent forage and weather.

 

[meirch1]

Update

The brood and a half is doing well, our local BKS tutor gave me a positive vibe, and the bees don't seem to mind! As part of my make up is to do things that others find strange including beekeeping, the fact that Beekeepers find this method a little idiosyncratic and the bees don't mind makes it very attractive!
All the negative comment comes about when emphasis is on the speed at which the inspections must be done, I confess I am a slow beekeeper, using slow beekeeping methods, my most enjoyable inspections are on fine days and take quite a while to get through, at these times my mind is diverted from the hustle and bustle of 'other' life activity, for this I am grateful my errant queen laid in the first super and introduced me to the slow and inefficient brood and a half! Thank you for all your thoughtful and helpful replies, they are all being mulled over, good luck in your own methods, the bees don't mind and the honey tastes just as good

 

[johnandyrob]

I dont use brood and a half but have discussed it with a friend that does. He says it gives his bees the space they need and at the end of the season the brood nest contracts down into the brood box. The bees then fill the super with stores. He then places the super under the brood box to over winter the bees empty it of stores and it is then placed back on top in the spring. He is happy with this method as it works for him.

Danbee do you use a single brood box the reason I ask is that a 14 x 12 is very similar size to a commercial brood box.

 

[DanBee]

Danbee do you use a single brood box the reason I ask is that a 14 x 12 is very similar size to a commercial brood box.

Double commercial, or for the very strong colonies triple. This year I have comfortably kept my colonies 'on the boil' in doubles waiting for a flow; there hasn't been the weather/forage for very strong colonies. I view any colony that doesn't expand beyond a single brood with suspicion, and often find that they are harbouring stress or viral problems. They will be generally shaken onto new comb and/or requeened.

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

I have one hive where I panicked thinking the queen had no more room to lay so added a second brood box my word what a lot of bees at first it was scairy but after trying a few different ways we found that, take off roof, put supers on roof put on Q/e next place first brood on that then check bottom brood and rebuild hive whils checking each box. Works well for us. My question to the forum is can you over wintre with a double brood?

 

[psafloyd]

I have a colony on brood and a half where it has 14 x 12 and a BB. Not changing it now until I put apigard on as the colony is huge.

 

[johnandyrob]

Double commercial, or for the very strong colonies triple. This year I have comfortably kept my colonies 'on the boil' in doubles waiting for a flow; there hasn't been the weather/forage for very strong colonies. I view any colony that doesn't expand beyond a single brood with suspicion, and often find that they are harbouring stress or viral problems. They will be generally shaken onto new comb and/or requeened.

Are they on permanent sites or do you move them if so how?

 

[HDP]

A staunch advocate of the brood and a half method is Tony Jefferson of :-
Stonelea Apiaries,
1 Dalehouse Bank,
Staithes.
Cleveland. TS13 5AN Tel. 07749 731945
who has published a booklet "The Jefferson Beekeeeping Guide" which costs £5.00 and is worth every penny.

He quotes "Many people advocate using 14 x 12 frames, I totally disagree, it is best to use a conventional brood box and a super as simple splitting of the boxes and inspecting the underside of the brood rearing super for queen cells takes seconds. People will argue that it is more cumbersome to manage a brood and a half - but that is complete rubbish."

 

[drstitson]

meirch1

you could of course have just put HM back below QE and left super above for brood to hatch. accidental trapping of HM above does not equate to colony needing B+1/2.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Quite a number of beeks near me run a brood and a half as they want the extra size brood area and it works, you just have to be more organised to account for the two frame sizes.

I worked a doube brood this year and got a large number of bees and more honey. With two boxes you have the option to do clever things like reversing the boxes to deter swarming, you have plenty of space for things like comb change.

A 14 x 12 may be big enough for an average brood but I would still want to over winter with an extra honey super as I am convinced that it is not that big. No problem with a double brood.

If I were you, I would see how your hive performs with your brood and a half in the Spring, you may be suprised. Ultimately you may find that a double brood may be your best bet.

 

[oliver90owner]

A 14 x 12 may be big enough for an average brood but I would still want to over winter with an extra honey super as I am convinced that it is not that big

What!?

With a full box, I am usually needing to remove frames of stores in the spring for colony build-up.

Do you actually know how much stores there will be in a full 14 x 12 and a full shallow, compared with the amount of stores a colony needs for over-wintering. Work it out, I would suggest, before following this route.

Better to fit a super and get a bigger harvest for the year.

RAB

 

[itma]

A staunch advocate of the brood and a half method is Tony Jefferson ...
who has published a booklet "The Jefferson Beekeeeping Guide" ...

He quotes "Many people advocate using 14 x 12 frames, I totally disagree, it is best to use a conventional brood box and a super as simple splitting of the boxes and inspecting the underside of the brood rearing super for queen cells takes seconds. People will argue that it is more cumbersome to manage a brood and a half - but that is complete rubbish."

And indeed, if you consider "tipping" to be enough to constitute a hive inspection, then you might agree with him. Otherwise ...