BIBBA Regional meeting In February

[Bob Bee]

Another fascinating Bibba day, with some useful morphometry comparisons across the Country and beyond, pity the DNA sampling for the same samples wasn't yet available. Also some interesting research findings on the quality and viability of Queens raised from emergency cells ( when deliberately made queenless ) debunking a lot of previous twaddle about not using emergency cells for queen rearing.
Nice 'Plain English' talk from the Isle of Man beekeeper too. Jo Widdecombe was predictably easy to listen to as well. Big Thanks to the team for putting it on again.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Also some interesting research findings on the quality and viability of Queens raised from emergency cells ( when deliberately made queenless ) debunking a lot of previous twaddle about not using emergency cells for queen rearing.

Who was the previous twaddle from? and could you please put on a link to the research paper findings on this.

 

[Thymallus]

Can you remember what criteria they used to evaluate the emergency queens?
The biology says that queen cell larvae that are fed the longest have more (or bigger) ovarioles and hence have the potential to lay more eggs and for longer. I've always assumed (perhaps erroneously) that if emergency queens were started from a newly hatched larvae they would be good. However, if the queen was started from a 2-3 day larvae that they were, shall we say, not as good. The problem being that the older larvae would be the first to emerge.

 

[For want of a better word]

Nutrition seems to have a role plus the age of the larvae and it seems environmental aspects

Never did get to ask P C if he had been to Tasmania, my Taxi turned up early!

 

[Thymallus]

I'm now puzzled, how does the talk at the BIBBA meeting alter our current understanding of emergency queen cells? Age, nutrition etc are all already well known.
I would really like to know what's new.

 

[For want of a better word]

I'm now puzzled, how does the talk at the BIBBA meeting alter our current understanding of emergency queen cells? Age, nutrition etc are all already well known.
I would really like to know what's new.

So pleased to hear that at least on Forum member is up to date with everything beekeeping!

It would seem that using "Emergency queen cells produces scub queens", is a unfounded fact that has been promulgated in the diverse beekeeping literature over the years
I will place that along with "Imported hybrid bees are best" and "Colonies MUST be requeened every year" in the beekeepering book of Great Beekeepering Myths!

 

[itma]

...
It would seem that using "Emergency queen cells produces scub queens", is a unfounded fact that has been promulgated in the diverse beekeeping literature over the years
...

Its not so simple.
You will get poorer ("scrub"?) queens from emergency queen cells which have (had to be?) started on older larvae - ie those that have missed out on getting the complete cycle of special queen-larva feeding.


There is another related myth that all larvae (Q or Worker) get identical feeding for the first two days. Not so!

 

[Thymallus]

"Emergency queen cells produces scub queens", is a unfounded fact that has been promulgated in the diverse beekeeping literature over the years

Ignoring what the hell are Scub queens, queens derived from 2-3 day old larvae are inferior, biologically speaking. Smaller ovarioles, less potential. Doesn't mean they are "bad" for a hive, but overall they are sub potential of what could have been. So the old literature is factually correct. May not apply to practically correct.

As for overseas are best, it depends on what the actual question being asked about them is....

 

[For want of a better word]

Its not so simple.
You will get poorer ("scrub"?) queens from emergency queen cells which have (had to be?) started on older larvae - ie those that have missed out on getting the complete cycle of special queen-larva feeding.


There is another related myth that all larvae (Q or Worker) get identical feeding for the first two days. Not so!

I have to admit I do not use emergency cells for queen production, as I thought that such are a last ditch attempt for a colony to survive, and carry on the "Selfish Gene" thing

Perhaps another thread should be started to discuss this topic, as it is not specifically a BIPCo / BIBBA revelation!

 

[REDWOOD]

Personally I prefer supercedure or swarm queens as they are generally bigger and easier to spot if you don't mark your queens.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Also some interesting research findings on the quality and viability of Queens raised from emergency cells ( when deliberately made queenless ) debunking a lot of previous twaddle about not using emergency cells for queen rearing.

Smell a whiff of Wally Shaw there?

 

[Thymallus]

Smell a whiff of Wally Shaw there?

Would you possibly care to educate those of us who don't know who (or what) a Wally is when we see/hear one?
Suspect should be smiley face after that.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Would you possibly care to educate those of us who don't know who (or what) a Wally is when we see/hear one?
Suspect should be smiley face after that.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31652

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29714

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/The-Many-Uses-Of-A-Snelgrove-Board-by-Wally-Shaw.pdf

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wally Shaw OBE - technical officer for WBKA, done a lot of work on methods of making increase and swarm control. Believes that making increase using 'emergency cells' produces no less effective queens as long as the method is done correctly

 

[Thymallus]

Thanks For that chaps. Gap in my education duly amended......Appreciate if the "method is used correctly".

 

[For want of a better word]

Gap in my education duly amended.....

The vast majority of beekeeperers have a gap in their education on many levels.

THAT is why the (BIBBA) Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders' Association events are always so educational.

The (BIPCo) Bee Improvement Program for Cornwall is in fact a separate organisation to BIBBA, but most are members of both organisations.
The BIPCo day always draws in keepers of native and near native bees from many places up the line!

Yegeth Da

 

[Thymallus]

Yes I can understand why they need to educate some of their members, just as long as it isn't subliminal brainwashing as well.

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes I can understand why they need to educate some of their members, just as long as it isn't subliminal brainwashing as well.

No BBKA do a good enough job with that !