Best way forward?

[Tindog]

I am currently assisting a friend who is not too well. One of his hives, a National, has been extremely productive this year but he is using two supers as the brood box which makes things a little difficult. They tend to be using the upper supper more than the lower super with the queen choosing to lay predominantly in that half of the brood nest. I have pondered about the best way to get them back in a brood box and when to do it. What are your thoughts?

 

[Amari]

Prepare a brood box with frames of foundation and, if available, drawn comb (maybe you could donate a couple of frames of drawn comb from one of your hives). Take a frame from the brood-shallow with the queen on it and place in the brood box.
Put a queen excluder on top of the two brood shallows on top of which place the brood box and another Qex. Above that replace any honey supers.
Bees will not draw the foundation in the BB unless there is a honey flow (waning at this time of year) so you may need to feed syrup - but don't contaminate the honey!
After three weeks all the brood in the brood shallows will have hatched. Remove those boxes and the lower Qex and now the BB sits on the floor. Put the two shallows on top of the hive above a clearer board. Remove the shallow frame from the BB.

 

[Beefriendly]

Easy. Put a brood box underneath the super with the queen. Queen excluder on top and other super (without queen) above it.
When they have drawn sufficient brood frames (I'm presuming you don't have any drawn) make sure the queen is in the brood box and move that last super above qx. Job done. The bees will look after any brood in the supers.

 

[Tindog]

Forgot to mention, lots of bees but the queen is unmarked which doesn’t make life easy.

 

[Beefriendly]

In which case shake the bees off the supers into brood box.

 

[Tindog]

Rightly or wrongly I have put a queen excluder between the two supers being used as brood boxes so at least I have a starter for ten to know which box the queen is in. If I can find the queen I think the issue is easy to resolve.

 

[TooBee...]

...They tend to be using the upper supper more than the lower super with the queen choosing to lay predominantly in that half of the brood nest...

I remember reading somewhere (Dave Cushman website?) that the Queen was reluctant to cross the gap between an upper and lower wooden frame, and therefore one would get a better filling out of a 12" deep brood frame instead of an 8".

Not intending on using 12" deeps (for now) does anyone have any thoughts on this...?

I would imagine a beek would need a LOT of experience with 12" and 8" brood frames, with closely related queens in the same apiary to be able to say one way or the other with modest confidence.

 

[Ian123]

hi tindog queens do not have issues using db brood boxes....for me 14x12 are just an irritating new size and in itself its just a brood and a half, that for me is just not big enough for others it may work. personally i prefer the smaller standard frames and find them more flexable in many aspects. if 1 thing beeks have done over the years to complicate things is everyone wants to invent a new hive..lol

 

[Finman]

I am currently assisting a friend who is not too well. One of his hives, a National, has been extremely productive this year but he is using two supers as the brood box which makes things a little difficult. They tend to be using the upper supper more than the lower super with the queen choosing to lay predominantly in that half of the brood nest. I have pondered about the best way to get them back in a brood box and when to do it. What are your thoughts?

Put all brood frames into same boxes. Move them lowest.
The queen will be there very soon.
Then put official brood box next day over the brood frames and then excluder.

Why the queen is laying in the super, reason is that lower boxes are too cold to laying. Too mucv ventilation.

 

[Amari]

Rightly or wrongly I have put a queen excluder between the two supers being used as brood boxes so at least I have a starter for ten to know which box the queen is in. If I can find the queen I think the issue is easy to resolve.

Good thinking

 

[Popparand]

Nothing much more to add. If the bb is empty you might want to put in a deep frame with brood and some stores from another hive (after you've shaken off the bees), and obviously they will need some frames with foundation to get her going. The brood above the QE will hatch and make their way down, along with any stores.

When the super frames are free of brood you can decide whether it's clean enough for honey, or you can cut out the old foundation and replace with new.

Just be a bit patient. It will take two or three weeks for all the brood in the supers to emerge. All pretty straight forward.