Best number of frames in brood box

[Big ears]

Hi,
Getting ready for first season. I have decided to go with wooden national hives and making up some DN4 frames.
looks like I can fit 12 frames in the brood box. Am I better to run 11 and a dummy or stick to 12?

cheers

BE

 

[Boston Bees]

Hi,
Getting ready for first season. I have decided to go with wooden national hives and making up some DN4 frames.
looks like I can fit 12 frames in the brood box. Am I better to run 11 and a dummy or stick to 12?

cheers

BE

11 and dummy

12 might fit in when they are new and pristine, but believe me, as soon as they get some propolis and comb on them, you'll have a hell of a job, and you'll end up crushing and rolling bees getting the last frame in and out.

 

[Big ears]

Thank you. More woodwork now to make the dummy boards

 

[Curly green finger's]

I prefer 12s it keeps the frames tight and you get less propolis, but I also have 11s and a dummy board.
I also use dn5s which are thicker top bars.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Thank you. More woodwork now to make the dummy boards

Just use a frame and put some inspection board in the frame instead of the wax

 

[Erichalfbee]

11 and a dummy
At least a dummy is flat. If you use another frame the bees propolise the side bars at the top, and you have the same problem as leaving 12 frames in

 

[Do224]

11 and dummy

12 might fit in when they are new and pristine, but believe me, as soon as they get some propolis and comb on them, you'll have a hell of a job, and you'll end up crushing and rolling bees getting the last frame in and out.

I made the mistake of using 12. It was fine until the bb was full and then became difficult. As a beginner I think 11 and a dummy board makes life much easier

 

[user 20297]

The dummy board which came with my first hive setup is narrower than the top bar of any frame. Consequently, when you use it to replace that 12th possible frame, there's still a bit of wiggle room, which helps.. A 12th frame still occupies the space of a frame, even if you have no foundation in it and designate it as a dummy.

My Abelos, when installed with 11 Hoffman frames, have just about the right free space after the last frame to allow the initial frame to be removed with minimum disturbance.....no dummy needed.

 

[rolande]

The national was designed to take 11 frames spaced at 1.5 inch. The 12th frame appears to be feasible because all the major domestic suppliers have narrowed their BS Hoffman sidebars. I think Pete Little was the last UK producer making 1.5 inch BS hoffman's - maybe the family still do so, I'm not sure.

 

[user 20297]

The national was designed to take 11 frames spaced at 1.5 inch. The 12th frame appears to be feasible because all the major domestic suppliers have narrowed their BS Hoffman sidebars. I think Pete Little was the last UK producer making 1.5 inch BS hoffman's - maybe the family still do so, I'm not sure.

That might just answer another query I just put up about frame spacing for drone production.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That might just answer another query I just put up about frame spacing for drone production.

No foundation?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

looks like I can fit 12 frames in the brood box. Am I better to run 11 and a dummy or stick to 12

11 and a dummy every time, you'll be glad of that extra bit of spare space by the middle of the season

 

[ericbeaumont]

It was fine until the bb was full and then became difficult

At that stage it's more effective to lever out the second frame from the end.

 

[user 819]

Wiggle room is easier on the bees and prevents rubbing then up the wrong way.

 

[JamezF]

I tried 12 frames and it became a nightmare once things had been propolised up. I stick with 11 frames and a dummy board now.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I can’t get 11 comfortably into the old style Abelo so run those with ten

 

[user 20297]

I can’t get 11 comfortably into the old style Abelo so run those with ten

What sort of frames is that? I've got 5mm excess space using 11 frames. That is shown in the image with a spacer to check the gap. Admittedly, those frames are new, but I haven't yet needed to reduce the numbers in active hives.

I assume you need to use a dummy-frame to fill the increased gap in the box?

 

[Erichalfbee]

14x12 and a thin flat dummy.
Trying to wiggle a 14x12 frame out of a tight box is tricky. They are poly boxes and quite often in the height of summer the queen is on that first frame

 

[user 20297]

14x12 and a thin flat dummy.
Trying to wiggle out a 14x12 frame out if a tight box is tricky. They are poly boxes and quite often in the height of summer the queen is on that first frame

I haven't used such deep frames. Now you describe it, I can understand the awkward geometry of 14 x 12. The dummy will give you a nice amount of wiggle, but a shame to lose a bit of the benefit of the larger frame.

Still, Abelos are so wonderful in every way that it must be worth that disadvantage.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. I’m sold on the big format. Others consider it the devils work
If I had my time again though I’d go for Langstroth