Bees swarming then returning.

[steve_e]

I have a queenless (though very full) hive. I'm waiting to either merge or re-queen it. Over the last few days they've been acting very oddly.

They are in the garden so I have easy and regular views of them. They act as though they are swarming - very full swarm - crawling all over the hive and air thick with bees for 10 to 15 minutes. However they don't actually take off, they just slowly return and cluster outside the hive for a while before returning to normal.

It happened three times today, once this morning at about 9.30am then again this afternoon at 1pm and again at 2.30pm. I've never knowingly seen a mating flight, so although I guess it's possible I've missed a virgin queen it could be that I suppose, but the descriptions I've heard of them don't sound anything like as dramatic as a swarm?

Is there anything else it could be? Are they just exhibiting queenless distress or something?

 

[Finman]

.
Now stop the game.

Put a foundation hive in old place and put the recent hive 10 feet away.

Then put into foundation hive one brood frames which has a queen cell.

When they get a new queen, they will escape if you do not act at once.

 

[itma]

I have a queenless (though very full) hive. ...

Would that be the cause?

 

[Finman]

.
What ever the reason, now they want to swarm. First duty is to cut the swarming fever.

.

 

[steve_e]

Ok, thanks for that Finman!

If I manage to get (as I hope I will) a virgin queen over the next day, instead of a queen cell and brood would they take a virgin queen in a cage with the foundation?

Or is that a stupid idea?

 

[Finman]

Ok, thanks for that Finman!

If I manage to get (as I hope I will) a virgin queen over the next day, instead of a queen cell and brood would they take a virgin queen in a cage with the foundation?

Or is that a stupid idea?

Yes but swarm escape at one when they get first virgin. Keep hurry and put into foundation box a queen cell which has brown thinned tip. It emerges next 0-3 days.

Bees need 3 days time too to move to new box.

Dont wait.

 

[steve_e]

Hi -
Thanks Finman - I did more or less as you said. I couldn't find anyone with a Queen cell at all with the beekeepers I know. So instead I did the manipulation exactly as suggested, with a new hive in the old position, foundation frames and a rapid feeder on top. Instead of the Queen cell I put a frame of brood and a virgin queen in a cage.

Then I put the old hive about 10 feet away.

A lot of the bees moved in to the new hive (well over 50 percent I'd say) and they seem very happy there, they are drawing out comb and although I haven't found any eggs yet (or the Queen) it's early days yet - they're bringing in pollen which I take as a good sign.

However, the old hive in the new position is a problem. Not all the bees left and even after 3 days, many were there still. I guess these may be mainly house bees?

But this hive (queenless as before) has since swarmed again yesterday afternoon. Instead of returning to their old home as they had been doing previously, they collected themselves in a swarm bundle high in a tree around the other side of the house - about 30 metres away.

I captured them into a travelling box and have been wondering what to do with them. I considered merging them with the old hive but was reluctant to do this until I have evidence that the new virgin queen is there and laying in case it upsets the new colony.

In the end I put a new hive together and tried to introduce them to it by shaking them from the travelling box onto a sheet leading up to the entrance. This seemed to work for a time, with most of the bees travelling up and into the box.

However, after about 15 minutes the air became thick with them again and they swarmed off again.

They're currently back in the tree I took them down from yesterday.

I'm completely lost now and don't know what to do with them. They're a small swarm with no queen and just seem to have got a collective swarming philosophy I can't seem to do anything about. I don't have another Queened colony I can introduce them to.

Are they a lost cause? Is there something I'm doing badly wrong? No-one I have spoken to seems to recall anything similar happening to them. I have half a mind to just leave them there and let them take off but I think that is probably not living up to my beekeeping responsibilities...

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[susbees]

I'm completely lost now and don't know what to do with them. They're a small swarm with no queen and just seem to have got a collective swarming philosophy I can't seem to do anything about. I don't have another Queened colony I can introduce them to.

No...they are a cast swarm with a virgin queen. I had a "headstrong" prime swarm to hive for a mentee the week before last..evaded capture twice and shot back 25 feet up the tree post fanning behaviour both times and cutting branches with pheromone away from the tree.

Took an old brood frame with a drop of lemongrass and lured them onto that...and stuck it in a hive (comfort blanket) with foundation and with a QE under for three days (VQ needs to mate). Sorted.

 

[steve_e]

I really don't think so susbees. At the moment I'm prepared to believe almost anything about bees given what's happened over the last couple of months, but this colony was definitely queenless (complicated reasons I won't go into, but I killed the old queen...).

So unless a princess has crept into the colony and led them all out I'm pretty sure this is a queenless swarm.